(0:01 - 35:28) Hi, I'm Madison Holmes, and I'm Maycee Holmes, and you're watching home squared. Oh my god Just let us know when you guys get tired of it. We probably won't do anything about it also true So today we wanted to talk about Propaganda and power and because we read two books Or actually you read because yours was only four hours long for listening purposes I am still in the middle of my book, but we've been reading two books Madison what book have you been reading? Propaganda by Edward Bernays. Yes, and I've been reading the 48 laws of power by Robert Green The big PP. Yeah. Yeah, so I guess the first question would be why did you decide to pick up reading propaganda? Um because our Our family's writing a book But we want Maddie's writing a book for yeah I'll get the family's input. Just somebody has to show the initiative for the The book the big thing is what we call the four-to-one rule and the four-to-one rule It's not it didn't originate in the house per se because you know the ratio four-to-one appears everywhere But as it is applied in our family it is for truth one lie or vice versa For lies one part truth. So that's the four-to-one ratio. It can go either way and that rule applies Everywhere and especially with our hemisphere work and our knowledge on how the brain works. You can find where even in the oligarchs are the theosophy and stuff like that. These are clearly People with nefarious intent but they can make a statement such as You know ripple effects go throughout time. You never know what you're what you're in relation to It's like, okay, so that statement makes sense But then when they tell you that you can be divine God and you can literally be God The closer you pursue your divine knowledge, then all hell breaks loose. So the four-to-one rule is really just understanding that no matter where you go who you're talking to what you're studying there is either Probably a part truth or a part lie in It and that means you always have to have your discerning caps on So that's why I started it because dad when he started thinking about the four-to-one rule This is the Propaganda by Edward Bernays is one of the big books that stuck out in his head and he said this is this is the book If you want to understand the four-to-one rule and kind of where he started Erecting the term in our household about it. That's the one to use. So I figured four-hour listen just get it in me and We'll move on to my book as well, but why I guess what have you learned in the book so far that you feel is like worth Sharing for people to kind of get their heads wrapped around on what propaganda is and I Guess how it relates to that four-to-one thing that you think that people should be paying attention to That's a good question Macy Honestly, it's in Basically, what's stuck out to you is important. Yeah. Well it cut it comes off straight from the beginning because People hear propaganda and they immediately think they know propaganda. I heard propaganda and I thought I knew what propaganda meant But Because of our work on the hemispheres, you know that Just like the word consequences Consequences doesn't inherently mean a negative we hear the word consequences and we think oh, that's that's that's a negative thing Hmm, but just like a ripple from a pond a drop in the water. There's nothing evil about a ripple It's a consequence of the drop in the water so This same rule applied for propaganda when I hear it and when most people hear it, they think of how they get manipulated by propaganda and Right from the beginning Edward Bernays his goal was to get rid of that notion, you know the inherent disgust and trepidation that people get when they hear the term propaganda and he This is where the four-to-one rule applies because there's part truth in the statement if we look at propaganda in the terms of where It originated from which they share in the book as propagation Just the propagation of an idea Propaganda can be in a simple conversation between you and me We could be having a conversation and propaganda about propaganda and so knowing this What that's part of the thing that really stuck out is the fact that his goal about showing propaganda as not inherently a Bad thing. It's just a consequence of sharing ideas, which even in our freedom communities and such One could argue we use propaganda to share the the anti-climate agenda to show the a Population agenda and how that's debunked and we have our own version of propaganda to do the thing So making the argument then you go back to the hemispheres mode of attention. Okay, so are you using propaganda for what aim? Look at what's the line that dad always says? Show me the money. I'll show you or show me the incentive. I'll show you the outcome Yeah, show me the incentive and I'll show you the outcome. So With ever Bernays that being his goal He's also a propagandist. So his incentive and throughout the whole book. He wants to propagandize propaganda Making the statement that it is a necessity for us So just knowing his incentive you can look at the whole of the book and go Okay, this guy had some nefarious intent not even the sense of because he was an evil individual But he genuinely believed his own press which is the danger of propaganda you you can believe your own press and pat yourself on the back Yet Knowing that he still has part truth in his overall goal Which was to look at propaganda as a tool of propagation of ideas of which it is So that's kind of that's the big thing that stuck out to me. Hmm This plays a lot into the book that I read and slash I am reading Because in it the argument is that there are multiple ways in which people try to achieve power Through various means of manipulation and He would he would argue like whether they know it or not and some of them were even ones where it's like if you Come across someone who is more vain, let's say and they don't really like to be outshone Then what you can do whether subconsciously or not is you will suppress your own greatness or Be more modest to try and win favor with this type of individual as your way of a means to achieving power and so Again, and there's been lots of instance I'm sure in people's lives where they've felt like They might have to step back on what it is that they say or how they think and like do I tell this person in? Honesty, or do I not tell this person in honesty completely because I'm trying to figure out a way to say it nicely And in his eyes he was like these are all ways that you are trying to achieve Power and now A part of me is like When it comes to our hemisphere work There was a part of my hemisphere that agreed with this in the sense where it's like Yes, there is what you were just describing this propagation. So it's like there is always Human beings wanting to negotiate themselves in this world and One of those means is I guess what you would want to what you could call his 48 laws of power, but that I honestly just see that as also like negotiation because it just Depends because sometimes the kind of negotiation on the on the kind of negotiation Because when you're What we know from the work of the hemispheres is that the left hemisphere and this was quoting Gilchrist Is the left is the hemisphere of reaching out to grab something? whereas the right hemisphere is the one of just reaching out period so Already that that that puts a differentiation between what the mode of attention of what is this? How I'm doing a thing like how I'm choosing to I guess quote-unquote propagate my narrative how I'm choosing to Use my means of power. Yeah, it's like how I'm doing this thing manipulation. How am I manipulating? Yeah, is it to? Manipulate someone for what it is that I want And then the next question is what do you want? Because what if what it is that I want is My propaganda is what I want their human beings to prosper, right? Maybe my burden and maybe my propaganda is I want people to be self-sufficient and maybe my propaganda is I want people to Just thrive. It's like well then yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna promote my my propaganda And then this is a bit of a problem though Is that when I was reading this book and we are having lots of good conversations with our family members because they like to We talk to each other but the problem with a book like that is He's telling you the type of people that you shouldn't trust But he himself is the type of person that you shouldn't trust and I'm thinking of that as I'm reading it because it's like It's basically here's how you use the left hemisphere the the power driven control driven fear of uncertainty Version of yourself self-centered version of yourself that doesn't take in context that doesn't care to negotiate with other people here's how you take that to Power struggle and defeat the left hemisphere. It's like if that doesn't sound like a self-referential just freaking Big nothing burger Then I don't know what does I will use the stones to destroy the stone. Yeah. Yeah, exactly It is though. It's just propagating more left hemisphere because it's like the solution to these mistrusting individuals because even the Macy was telling me some of the examples and there was this sad one about you know a prince and he had a poor friend and the prince was trying to Rule at some point, is that correct? And then he's on his way to becoming a ruler and he needed his friends help and assistance in government Yeah, because the friend has different perspective. He's poor. He's got the street life, you know, he's looking for another side of things So the prince is like I'll help you. I need your I need a second pair of eyes Will you do that for me? And then a betrayal happens as the story goes on and well The story goes on because like the friend the prince was asking his friend For some help once he steps into government and then the friend This prince would give his friend a bunch of gifts and he would give him riches and he was being a good friend in the sense of like here's I'm gonna compensate you for what it is that you're doing for me, but Also, he would give him gifts in the sense of like I am just showing my genuine appreciation Anyway, it's not like you necessarily have to do anything for me but then as the story goes on there's the betrayal of the friend who's just like once he gets a taste right he he wants more and then he completely forgets all of the context as to how his his prince friend who was in a better position than him was the one that helped him out and in the assessment like Robert Greene's assessment of this story is that well this person that is this boy The friend clearly thought that he deserved what it is that he got and maybe he did maybe there was competency, right? but then He forgot where it came from which was the good graces and the potential and the love of his friend. Yeah, but sorry, so go on and well exactly that so then this this miss this betrayal happens and The solution to the mistrust That this prince now has is to be mistrustful himself is what the author would say the solution to being betrayed and avoiding Getting stabbed in the back or don't hire your friends. Don't hire your friends. It's like, okay So now everybody is this way? Yeah, it is entirely Hall of Mirrors, which is key of the left hemisphere because the left hemisphere Literally for people that don't know the left hemisphere is in it's it's always opposite So left hand is the right hemisphere more or less and then the right hand is the left hemisphere more or less They're not just hand like the whole body the whole body the whole the whole body the left hemisphere controls the right half Which is why majority of people are right-handed because it's physically better as Macy alluded to at grasping things But the right hemisphere Because it's contextual it knows the whole body It is it even though it is has a proclivity for the left side It can still access the right side of the body the left hemisphere. Can't it? Literally does not know about half of its existence. It does not know about the right hemisphere It that is it can't fathom it So in these stories when we refer to this power struggle in this mistrust in these people as left hemisphere in the Hall of Mirrors is because the left hemisphere not knowing anything other than itself literally speaking then all you get is a Hall of Mirrors you just get you upon you and a great embodiment of this or a pop reference for the youngsters out there is Matrix Agent Smith. Mm-hmm. He just wanted more me and that is the epitome of the left hemisphere Yeah, yeah I Forgot how that related to what we were talking about entirely what I was gonna say is what I'm thinking of the book and I'm thinking of the self-referential system in the Hall of Mirrors that you're Alluding to It's like it's Trying it's almost like now you're creating a bit of a psychopic Is that a word? I hope that's a word a psychopic Society because if you're reading that book as a young person perhaps You're starting to think that like that's all the negotiations in life is someone's trying to Manipulate me. Yeah To achieve whatever it is They want to achieve and I have to be good at being able to Manipulate them for me to achieve what I want to achieve and it does create mistrust I mean, we were just talking about the fact that it's like there is In our household. We also kind of say where it's like people do have agendas so you do have to bear that in mind and yes, some of them are like subcom like whether consciously known or not because The intricacies of their story they might not be aware that they're doing a thing And they may be trying to nudge you in a certain direction It's like because everybody has a left hemisphere so a part of that book is telling the truth because it's like there is a part of you that is Interacting with and being the nudger and pending for power intending for Power just the the propagation in the narrative that we're just talking about but then there wasn't But it creates a bit of a psychotic Mentality though because now it's now it's the game of power, right? And then that's just that's what you're creating instead of what about the game of collaboration, right? Like it's like what about the game of legacy of investing into potential. It's like when you're playing those games Yes, what I'm saying right now is my propaganda of the fact that that's what I would that's what I would like to see But When you're thinking about it, we were watching the Wall Street movies they were with I think oh Forgot his name is that Michael Douglas? Yes. Yes, I think so. I just know him as like Hank Pym. We were We were watching those movies and one of the characters the young Characters is kind of looking up to this Wall Street big corporate corporate character And he's obviously he's a hustler and you won't talk about game of power. Well, there you go, but he was saying asking the question when would It be enough when would you reach an amount of money where it's enough and then most of the big corporate guys or their answer was There's never enough like more more. I'll just keep going. Are you talking about but I Was thinking about that as I was reading this power book and I was like But what if there was like what if there was a number where you felt like and I don't mean just like number Arbitrarily, I mean like what if there was a set a standard where and this isn't anything new Like people have said this before where if people felt like they were at a comfortable place in their lives Where they felt like they were sustained and they felt like they were All of their needs were met Economically like they got foods covered all that fun jazz Then maybe what happens is they start thinking about okay Maybe now I can invest into some charity, but not just charity into other people, but maybe the charity of my mind Maybe I can start thinking which would be a charity to other people if you invested in your mind. It's like maybe I could be Taking time to study astronomy taking time to study psychology. It's taking time to study The psychologists taking time to study the astronomers, right and so taking time to Study all these things because you have the basics met. I think it's Katherine Austin Fitz So it's talking about the popsicle index and that's kind of what that is. It's like if you feel like you're Not in a safe enough neighborhood where you can even go down the street to go grab a popsicle, right? Then you're probably not you know, I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna go do that thing But what is it? Well, what's pop? It's a cool dude. Like what is going in a popsicle? It feels like it's good Look morale boost, you know what I mean? But it's just you can't get morale boosts and you can't get boosts in life without feeling like your needs are met And so this was something that I was just thinking about in terms of that movie and these Wall Street People because they are like I guess a good example of when you're thinking about like the upper echelons of people who think like this Yeah of the power game struggle, but it's like what what if you? Weren't what if there was a number? What if there was a thing where it's like no hand now hand it down to the other guy the little guy, right? It's like you're just gonna keep striving forward for you, right? but what if you were what if you held a monopoly because you were successful because maybe down because Maybe you were investing into people that had a talent and you were like come into my business I'm gonna I'm gonna eat you up and For better or worse and obviously for better since you have a monopoly, right but now what if there's people down the line They're like, I want to do my own thing or there's new up-and-comers coming in and they're like, I want to start businesses But you're so big and like I don't know if I'm like on par with necessarily joining your group your crew We're just all the nuances of like we can't just have one big company run by one It's like apparently you can What if it was like, okay, so what I have created I'm gonna pass it down to the little guy and I'm gonna invest into them to Like rising tides float all ships. I'm gonna lift them up. Right and then now you've invested into legacy and now And and then if you were ever in a spot where maybe you felt like things weren't okay, or you needed some help It's like it's almost like family. Like I that's how I'm seeing It's like Instead of it being a power struggle What if it was a like a family where it was teamwork where it was like, right? I'm gonna invest into my child project my your child project. I'm gonna invest in the potential of what this thing could be And not knowing whether or not it's gonna work out in the future, but I'm doing it out of love I'm doing it out of maybe because there's trust because I've done my own work in education because I've done this thing So I have the experience to take a look at when I see the potential and this is just what I think Well, it's openness to the other which even in the propaganda book you know the argument that I alluded to at the beginning where some people could look at the the freedom movement or the I Don't even want to say conservatives because liberal conservative NDP is such a false dichotomy Especially today if you want to talk about propaganda, let's talk about the propaganda about the political parties but The idea about propaganda being on both sides Still doesn't make it all bets are off All propaganda is created equal because if knowing the hemispheres what mode of attention or as the quote that data We says the incentive Because even in some being a part of our local groups that are trying to bring more education on Things like the corruption of the political system and the medical system and how to Get around that heal from that here in Alberta we have invited the opposition Every time to participate that's not straight propaganda propaganda in the sense of we're still propagate propagating what we believe and the the idea that we Have our fundamental roots based on But we're not static and we're not unwilling to hear the other side So it's not a closed system also, which would be the left hemisphere. It is still an open system We are tried to reach out our hand as you alluded to that reaching out with an open palm is the realm of the right Hemisphere funny that I use my left hand But that openness Has still been in the movement So although one the oligarch could and the person writing your Robert Greene, is that his name? Robert Greene would look at the Propaganda book of Edward Bernays and say see you his propaganda your propaganda it's all just the power play whoever can get a hold of get on top of one another and yet our Groups still have that right hemisphere mode of attention of openness to the other person, which is why it's an educational Movement. It is an educational organization all of the Groups that are around Alberta specifically anyway Yeah, it's not an echo chamber. No, it's not an echo chamber Whereas propaganda in the sense of the left hemisphere, which is could also be what Edward Bernays Was doing you even maybe not knowingly all the time But that's propaganda for the sake of Hall of Mirrors You believe stem wholeheartedly in your position and you don't want the opposition So even even in propaganda just like what you were saying in that power of propagation Mode of attention which hemisphere has its say on the thing Which one is well that and then the nuances as well like when I was some of the scenarios that he paints in this book and I can't go through all them because we don't have the time but As I'm listening to them, it could be as simple as well is like How it goes is he literally goes Interpretation and which hemisphere do we know is the primary? hemisphere for interpreting Analysis apart from like analyzing you're stepping outside of the actuality to go and say this is what I think is what's going on I'm gonna re-experience the experience. Yeah doesn't mean that that's a that's the experience. Yeah, it's your re-experience of the experience literally then What he does is he does his re-experience of the experience and how he interprets these scenarios I'm like, well, what if that's not the case? Like what if this person you want to say they pulled a power move and it's like maybe they pulled a power move in part Hence why we can't ignore the four to one rule what if it was like They changed the mind Right. Like what if there was a degree of resonance and truth that struck into this person and they were like, oh wow, like Okay, like then I'm gonna do what you want to do because you clearly have shown that you know what you're talking about. It's like Whatever happened to when that happens? And I mean like I know we don't subscribe to the whole statement of like trusty experts But it's like but don't negate the experienced, you know what I mean? So it's I was just thinking of those things in the same in the sense of the nuances of how the actual negotiation happened No, he was just thinking about how the the means to the end. Yeah, but not how The negotiation of the means to the end happened. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the tough thing about even talking I alluded to the political leaders, though Some really good thinkers like Alex Craner or Tom Mowango Have made They look at geopolitics. They are looking at international levels of government and how it plays out and recognizing that even democracy is not as blatantly innocent and forgiving as were as were led to believe here in the West specifically, you know democracies are prized possession and yet and Yet and people especially watching this if anybody who's been watching the iron wire daily report for a while and listening to will you'll know of the compilation of all of the mainstream news channels going this is extremely dangerous to our democracy hmm, I Mean that alone should get you going. Okay, so if these people are taking democracy and using it to as This very valuable thing in the in the zeitgeist and the Overton window of us as the plebs Then we need to take a second. Look at What is so valuable and precious about our democracy? Well, why would knowledge be a threat to democracy? Right, that's not democracy then, you know, I'm saying like that's not yeah Yeah and that's the one thing that More and more people are starting to look and this isn't say that they're you know the monarchy is the way to go or even that a republic can republics always work because it's complicated leadership's the time that you're working with the culture that you're trying to work with but Looking at democracy as a tyranny of the majority has been this idea coming out more and you look at leaders like Lincoln In the past who were considered they got called dictators because of certain decisions that they made in spite of the public and Especially when people would understand nowadays when there's so much effort to subvert the the minds and the narrative that How can you turn this is why education is so important if your populace isn't educated How are we going to differentiate the four-to-one rule, how are we going to make the right decisions? how do we look at a leader and expect them to take in on all of our opinions if we haven't done our due diligence and research so that's that's a very something to consider even when looking at leaders and Expecting them to listen to who? You know, there's brain here and a brain in their skull So, are they are we all doing the due diligence to know that there's power plays in our own Minds let alone on the big global scale and then there's propaganda that they're trying to tote and work We're trying to tote you got to look at and discern each and all of these different things Yeah, and we only have 30 minutes So I make this brief, but I think that you have to also pay attention to what's like physically going on Like that's yeah that's something that you're just we aren't taught to look out for because if we were taught to look out for it will propaganda might not Do a very good job of being propaganda right and What Maddie was talking about with that education aspect of it? It's like that people don't really understand or see that that really could be a good solution because there are those who in industries feel like All of this is downstream of bigger problems, right and then they're like, how are we supposed to tackle big pharma? Right. It's like maybe someone dealing in The hospitals might look at the health patients and go like I wouldn't be having to deal with this if it wasn't for vaccines if it wasn't for Pharmaceuticals if it wasn't for bad parenting if it wasn't for so much so much so much so much and add a bunch of Psychology on top of that sandwich, but it's like Then what they're gonna be going like, well, what are we supposed to do take down the friggin pharmaceutical mafia? like how like that's not gonna happen in my lifetime, right and it's like well, what if Actually what we had was again like kind of what I was referring to before which is like if you had a society That felt like they were in a good state of abundance and maybe they could be educating themselves on these things Then maybe we could be understanding more of ourselves So there's less of us in the hospitals and then understanding ourselves so that there's less of us to have to go and take care Of those people in the hospitals because they're not gonna be there You know, I mean, it's like these these are things like how do you solve the insecurities of your life? Like that's that's and I feel like that's why I almost like funny enough. This can be a fun little plug but it's like that's why energy is so important because it's like if we were actually making things faster at a Faster rate than it gives us the time to actually learn these things instead of trying what we're doing now which is like and I feel like this would be inevitable anyway, where it's like you were right now surviving and trying to learn at the same time, but it's like It would be a lot nicer if it was like more abundance that way other people felt comfortable to have the time to learn as well, but But those are just some last remarks that I had I I think that one one last last thing is that We have to when I was talking about the fact that you have to pay attention to the actions it's like that is the facts because I Don't care about how many power tactics it is that people are Manipulating on each other I don't care about the fact that if there's power plays happening and counter moves and measure moves and that's sometimes a bit of the thing that we see in the and even the freedom community is sometimes people will find their own excuses to justify why their leader that they have faith in is doing a thing because maybe they're trying to you know, Like ninja turtle frickin all of the imperialists and so they're trying to just logic their way, but I it's Part of me goes like look at their policy and look at what's physically going on in the world Okay, because something even I would look at is that there's people still getting like bombed in Yemen right now under Trump So and that was not me totally going like let's just do a whole thing now and why I don't like Trump That wasn't it was just a context of like there's still people dying and we have to ask ourselves Is that what we really want? Is that what is are we like so make America great again that it's just like American hegemony and exceptionalism where we've become our own Nazi Germany and we just think that we're like the Aryan elite class of like Americans and Canadians and Western culture that thinks that we have the right to go kill a bunch of human beings. It's like well Maybe you're making a reason because there can they committed atrocities, but it's just like but we do that to each other It's like we have had our own issues in the past of doing that like we're under tyranny right now So yeah, you know, but anyways, I know we are definitely over time and that can be another topic for another time But oh, of course that one's that one's that one's juicy. There you go. I just I just made I plugged a Potential teaser. Yeah, there you go little nibblings yeah, but on learning oneself in order to not fall into these traps and to See the four-to-one rule see where there is either four parts true to one lie where you got a pinpoint the lie Or maybe there's four lies, but one piece of truth that you ought not to dismiss You can again go to our substack at home with homes Because we do discussions on the hemisphere work Ian McGilchrist and the master and his emissary and Then you'll hear us talk about the four-to-one rule a lot because that needs to be talked about because people need to understand how their own function works That way that we can navigate and find ourselves out of this cesspool and sledge that we find ourselves in today So pretty much. Yeah, forgive the five minutes over Till next time this has been at homes homes Geez I was thinking of our own substack Hold on ready ready. This has been home squared. Thank you for that redemption