(0:02 - 0:08) Hi everybody, I'm Madison Holmes. And I am Maycee Holmes. And you're watching Holmes Squared. (0:09 - 5:15) We did the influx. We did the influx. Okay, me and Maycee, just so everybody knows, just if you want a little bit of a sneak peek back screen. Behind the curtain. Behind the curtain, yeah. We spend, I want to say at least half an hour every episode prior to recording discussing not only what to talk about, but how more importantly to talk about it. Because, you know, ideas, they're complicated. And life is complicated, especially when you're pursuing the topics that we're pursuing. Especially when, like me and Maycee, we don't know everything about the topics that we're pursuing, because we're in the midst of pursuing it. So it's complicated to put together a cohesive tapestry for people to look at and appreciate, or in your guys's case, most of the time, listen and actually comprehend. Today, we're taking on one of Maycee's favorite subjects. And it really is like, it's complicated, but it is one of her favorite subjects of the hemispheres. We allude to it all the time. And Maycee has actually done a three-hour presentation on the Rising Tide Foundation. You can find it on our Substack or on the Rising Tide Foundation on YouTube. But she did the whole, the gestalt being, the brain as the great equalizer. And did not need to be three hours, but. It didn't. Well, that's the thing. We're trying to. Still learning how to be succinct in our messages. Yes. And that's the thing, especially with the brain, which is a new field of study for the most part, even the book that we allude to all the time. And if you guys look here on our sub stack, most of our content thus far is on The Master's Emissary, reading it. It's episode upon episode. And even that, to be frank, is probably not enough. No. That's just his first book on it. He has, my dad's reading, our dad is reading volumes one and two of The Matter With Things, which is even more expansion on the brain. But to talk about it, it's difficult because not only are there a lot of misconceptions, but the reality about the human disposition is that it's very complicated and people like simple formulas. Even in our own household, this is the funniest thing. We've all read the book, some of us more than once. And we still push and pull about, okay, is that really the left hemisphere? Is that more of the right? Or going back and forth. The reality being that both hemispheres are always working in conjunction with one another. So as much as it would be really easy to, and we have to do this at times, to just say, oh, that's the left hemisphere, that's the right hemisphere. One imprint can be bigger than the other. They are still working together. And focusing on that, as Macy was alluding to in our conversation prior to recording, is the gold of the book, is where the book's usefulness is supposed to be. Um, Maycee, you wanted to talk about the motivation for us even getting into the book. We would call the mode of attention going into it because we have, back when we were first getting into this, me and dad listened to, it was a live Zoom meet with McGilchrist and there were a bunch of different peoples that had read the book and they were going to ask him questions. And me and dad were super excited because, you know, just starting this journey, we were like, oh, this guy's, he's a, he's a godsend. We love him. Um, but there was a guy on that Zoom meet and he said, I love this book, but this whole conversation we've had in this meeting has been utterly useless and blah, blah, blah. And I was, I was surprised to hear that, you know, I was like, whoa, that's pretty negative for somebody that apparently appreciated the book so much. But the reality is we've met people that have read the book and come to completely different conclusions than you and I have. And so if you want to say a piece on that and I guess the importance of even your journey about picking, cause I know the way you see the book and why you would tell somebody, like if this whole episode was on read the book, I know it's not the same answer today as it was when you first picked it up because I don't think even you had the answer when you first picked it up. Is that true? Does that resonate for you? I mean, the answer back then would probably just be why not like try, try it out. Right. (5:15 - 6:17) But I think that as I started reading it, I found more of the value of why I thought this knowledge was important. And I think that the reason why it resonates for me, because I won't necessarily, I don't need to speak on behalf of you, but you'll probably resonate with what I'm saying anyway, is I felt like it gave me more personal accountability. And it's like, it's like when, uh, I don't know, uh, we were on the Chris and Carrie show and there was someone in the comments that was like, should you, is it, would it be a good idea to learn the hemisphere proclivity of your spouse, for instance? And, uh, and it reminded me of when dad would tell us stories of how he read books on the biology of women and he was doing it to better understand them. (6:17 - 8:04) And he would tell us, he's like, well, no wonder they liked me so much is because I took the time to actually try and understand their psychology a bit more. Um, and so when I read the book, I started like, you can go in with the mode of attention of kind of asking yourself, what kind of proclivity are you? Um, what do you lean towards in what instances? Um, and then you can start to see it play out in other people. Um, you can start, it's almost like when people are like, when they do Jordan Peterson's work and they see that it's like, oh, this person's like an introvert and they're, uh, um, disagreeable and they're this, this, this and that. Um, but you can use it in that sense of trying to figure out their proclivity and like, I guess sort of place a label on it. But even the act of placing labels was explained. And that was interesting to me. It was like, even, um, I guess the certain modes of attention of how you come to know things is explored and slash explained. Um, and the, cause the value of wanting to go and explore the topic, funny enough, I could say now was my right hemisphere, trusting my, uh, my dad, trusting, um, you guys, my right hemisphere doing it for the potential, um, doing it for out of love. Um, and then, um, but, um, like, I didn't know that at the time. (8:04 - 9:09) I was just doing it. Right. So I was still, that's why it's funny. Cause like people will still, well, how about this? The brain will still do a thing as we were always alluding to, you will be doing a thing, but now you get to explore a bit more of the magic trick when you're not aware of the, I guess the not so favorable parts of your disposition, because when I was learning about it, I was kind of upset about the fact that, uh, dad, he would, he would explain it and kind of put labels on it. He'd be like, cause he would use the people around his household and in his life to try and refer to what, uh, what he was learning. And he'd be like, you're left hemispheric in this sense because of X, Y, and Z. Um, and at first I didn't like it. I was like, are we, um, labeling people's hemispheres? And then I kind of like learned that I was getting defensive or maybe yeah, defensive. And I was wondering, well, why, why that was. And as I was going through the work, I was kind of learning. (9:09 - 9:51) And I was like, Oh yeah. Like, it's kind of because I have a bit of, uh, of my hemispheres are communicating. They were in communication. I was like, Oh shoot. Like this is part of my left hemisphere. That's a bit like mistrusting. And, um, uh, and on the other sense, it's like, um, my right hemisphere wanting to understand the possibility though of what he's talking about. I was like, Oh, like, do I need to take this personally or is he trying to map out a pattern? Right. So, um, I don't know if that answered the question, but, oh yeah, that, well, and that takes work and that's the thing with pursuing. (9:53 - 11:32) It does resonate. I definitely wanted to learn. We started with things like Peterson's work and Gad Saad's work, the IDW. And I really liked reading the consuming instinct, um, learning why women wear heels, what longer hair means biologically, um, what's the significance of makeup. That stuff really helped me because learning about what you do, even unconsciously, which is definitely, that's the brain because our biology people accept is just doing things. You know, everybody kind of accepts nowadays that evolutionary biology to just, just a thing. And we just have this biology that's happening all the time. It's like, okay, same with the brain. Same thing. There's this thing happening all the time and we don't put conscious effort to it. But as soon as I learned what it is that I do, especially unconsciously, I learned what I didn't want to do and how I could do that consciously. Yes. Because I listened to Gad Saad's audiobook and I went, okay, well, I'm making a conscious decision now that I don't want to wear makeup. I don't want to pretend to be something I'm not. And that's because I grew up a liar. I lied a lot as a kid. And so it's just understanding what I was and what I was capable of. It helped me figure out who I want to negotiate from here on in to be. (11:32 - 14:11) And then so learning the hemispheres, which the difference between the two, and as you said, your proclivity, then from there you can now decide, because it's not, maybe you, it's hard to make a conscious decision if you don't know what's going on subconsciously and unconsciously. Yeah. So from my personal experience, I've, I've spoken about this before, but never on here. So I'll just give my context. It's like, when I was little, I was very, I'm littler than I am now. Right. Yes. The 20 year old. Right. When I was younger than I was, am now, I was very, two, I would call it now, too left hemispherically self-aware in the sense of like, I would nitpick and detail everything wrong about me, even if it wasn't true, which is kind of funny. Like, I thought that I knew myself so well. Right. And what I did to a tee. Right. That anytime I had conversations with you, Maddie, I'd be like, this is me and this is what I'm doing. And this is the kind of person I am. And I would box myself in and categorize myself. And when we say that that's left hemispheric, if you refer to the presentation that I give, if you go to check out our book studies, if you read the book, you'll understand that that was my left hemisphere or our, all our left hemispheres have a mode of attention towards the world to gain certainty and to grasp things. And there's evidence with studies of people doing a thing and then we're interpreting it. And that takes both hemispheres kind of like, it's mainly the left hemisphere that goes and kind of like interprets things after the fact and kind of puts things on the label and categorizes them. So that's what, and why that is again, if you explore a bit further, you'll, you'll find that out for yourself. But what my, what I was doing was I was doing that exact thing. My left hemisphere was just boxing myself in. And when I learned the work of the hemispheres, I kind of, and also through various, lots of conversation with you as well and dad and lots of our, almost all our family members, because I was trying to solve the problem. (14:11 - 14:30) I learned that even my pursuit of trying to solve the problem was me getting better, even if I felt like I was never getting better. I always would come and go like, we keep having the same conversations. I keep saying the same things. I keep doing the same things. I'm not doing anything. And it did get me in some form in cotton and nothing-ism bubble. (14:31 - 15:04) But then I would always be reminded of what I was physically doing because I would still physically go and take out the garbage and recycling. And I would still physically try to do my best in school. And talk to the members of the family. And I would physically continue to keep trying to talk to the members of the family. So there was something where it was like my actions weren't lining up with my box of reality that I even had on myself. And when I learned the fact that that's what I was doing, I was like, oh shoot, like that's my left hemisphere. (15:04 - 16:31) Like I'm totally doing this thing. Whereas before I was doing it, I was in the magic trick, but then I kind of saw that that's what it was, was a magic trick of me manipulating myself. And did I necessarily I guess need to know that this was my left hemisphere in order to get myself out of that? Well even the, it's funny, when you're thinking about whether or not it's need in utilitarian terms, we kind of learned where that even comes from. And why we think in utilitarian versus when it's like, well do you learn something necessarily for just its utility? Or different mode of attention, do you learn it for its potentiality of the future, of connecting, of expanding for the je ne sais quoi? So, and this is just stuff that I was learning with the hemisphere work. And I think the mode of attention thing was the best, I guess, understanding that came out of that. Because when Gilchrist talks about metaphor, he talks about the fact that the right hemisphere in us is very inclined to understand metaphor, it gets it, it's more apt to, I guess, see through that lens. (16:33 - 17:32) And when he talked about it, it was striking and important to me because it was like, oh, like are, the metaphors we choose to understand the world manifest. When he said moral, like attention is a moral act, it was like, oh shoot, like what I choose to attend to and what I don't choose to attend to really does play out into my lived experience. And why lived experience is so important is also because of the interaction between it and our brains. Because our, I guess, our hemispheres act as sort of like a, what did he call it? I think it was a mediator of experience. Yeah. And so, then I just, our brains are doing a thing regardless of the fact that I can explain it. (17:33 - 21:05) Because I only get to explain it because of my hemispheres. I have the ability to do this thing because of my hemispheres are doing a thing, they're interacting, right? But it was this level of introspection, this level of understanding that helped me to kind of figure out what it is that I wanted to do with the knowledge now that I had it. And when we figured out that the metaphors that we choose even play a role into how we interact with each other, I was like, oh, this is a huge find for me personally. It almost gives you a goal because, you know, Peterson talks about the incremental progress and changing the ratio. It's like, okay, how often do you, how often do you clean your room versus not type thing? Can you even 5% read? Sebastian always talks about some people have a hard time reading and they don't like it. And I understand because there are a lot of not so fun books out there, especially nowadays. But Sebastian always just said, read five pages. And people are like, five pages, that's pathetic. You know, I should be able to read 20 pages. I should be able to read 20 minutes. And so it's like, one page is one more than you've been reading as of late. So if you do one page today, that's one more than you did yesterday. And then do another one tomorrow. And then another one tomorrow. And if you feel like one day, you're like, I have the time, I'll do five. But one step closer to what you weren't doing the previous day, the incremental progress, and with the hemispheres, understanding that even though they're all they're working together, at all times, one, people do have a proclivity, meaning a bigger footprint of one over the other. Some people are a bit more left hemisphere inclined, some are a bit more right hemisphere inclined. And then from once you figure which one am I, because you're going to be leaning towards a little bit of one or the other, then from there, we are all given the goal and the choice the aim. Okay, if I'm a little bit too left, well, then how, and this was the question Macy, you asked, and are still asking, is how do I ping more to the right side of my brain is what we call it. But how do I make a couple more decisions or do a couple more actions in my life, they're a bit more right hemisphere inclined. And vice somebody that's right, there is a healthy balance is the aim. And that's not 50-50. People might think that, oh, balance equal parts. Actually, no, it should be more. If people like formulas, I always say like 70% right hemisphere 30% left is how I've kind of formulized it for to help people better understand. So it's like, okay, if you're, if you're a bit more left, how do you get to that ratio of 70? Right? 30? Left? Or if you're way right, if you're like 100% right hemisphere, you need you need that 30% left. There's definitely pros and cons to being too much of either. (21:06 - 25:35) But reading the book, just like reading McGilchrist's work, reading God sides work for me, gives you a goal. And it gave you, Maycee, a goal of, personally as an individual, how do I get to where it's a bit more balanced? Well, yeah, like, and we're not like, I don't claim to be perfect and understanding it. I feel like I'm still trying to learn. But what I do know is when I see it, right? Because right. And people do this, like people, again, brains doing a thing. So people do this. But this, this is the fun part. So I don't know how much detail I can give on this. But I'll just say I know people. Yes. That I when I was learning this knowledge, I was like, holy shit, like these people are so left hemispherically inclined. And I think I recognized it just because I was very left hemispherically inclined. And I think it's because people do this thing where sometimes they look at someone and they hate to see what it is that they see in themselves in that person. And sometimes they don't want to admit it. But they recognize it because maybe they think that they know themselves. Again, I'm it's nuanced because I was very introspective. So I always looked at myself and I always beat up on myself. I looked at people and I went like, if someone did something atrocious, I thought first and foremost, I wonder if I do that. That was actually always where my brain leaned towards. It was never actually like a sure, like that's atrocious. And then like, just look at them and go like, well, I don't do that. Right. Actually, I would always kind of sometimes to my own detriment say that I did that as well. Right. But I want to talk about the fact that there are people that do do the other side, which is like, I don't do that. And I think that that's why this is the fun part because it's like when you see individuals acting in a certain way, when you have the knowledge under your belt of what the hemispheres do and kind of how they interact in the world and then how people are living that out, like we are living that out, your brain is doing a thing. Even my trying to articulate this with language and words is them doing a thing and how I do it is also them doing a thing. But when you understand how they do it, then to some extent, you're like, oh, OK, like I don't want to. I figured out what it is that I don't want to do, I figured out what it is that I want to do. And then. Because I figured out what I'm doing, because I figured out, oh, that's what I'm doing. And so. Yeah, like that's that's where I would say that that's to keep it general, that's kind of what I've come to to learn from that. And like when I when I think of society. I think of the fact that it's like the biggest metaphor that people have been using to describe society is today is that it's very schizophrenic. And to me, I'm like, well, we should explore why we're using that term. Yeah. Like we should explore why we use that metaphor. And so that's where me and Maddie have also dived into the brain work is to try and better understand, like the metaphors that we choose, because our understanding is both cause and effect of the metaphors we choose. It's like. My understanding is based upon the metaphors I choose, but the metaphors I choose is also based upon my understanding. Right. So then that plays into reality with that mode of attention of what it is that you're choosing to compare the world to or compare things to, like comparing things to a machine. Again, I've talked about this before, where you become then your own little Yuval Noah Harari and that plays into technocracy and it plays into society. And it all starts with the battle of, I guess, the hemispheres. But and then that's where we've come to learn where it's like them working in tandem is really where you get the beauty of the balance between the soul of what the soul is. It's the balance between them working together. And so. (25:35 - 27:00) Well, you said like, we recognize it when we see it with the balance, even if we are in the pursuit of trying to get there. And it's to me, people like even when we watch movies as a clan all the time and you look at archetypes, you know, even Maximus from Gladiator, that is somebody who even men get crushes on Maximus because he's like the archetypical male and he's doing stuff that resonates with people. And I would consider that to be where you have a decent hemisphere balance. And that is then in tune, align with the body and the soul and the spirit and all of those lovely, beautiful things. So it's this big thing that works in tandem. And you recognize that when you see it, because everybody, that's the funniest thing about movies is that even Lord of the Rings, you know, next to the Bible, those books were one of the most read books on the planet. It's like, OK, clearly he found something that resonated with the human condition. And there's a reason things like the Bible resonate with people. And you talked about labeling and you and I have gone, this is the funny thing about labels. (27:01 - 33:42) We have been asked before, are you Christian? Are you Catholic? Are you Buddhist? And we've had Buddhists and Christians and Catholics all identify us as Christian or Catholic or Buddhist. They say, oh, you clearly just have the values of us. So are you a blah? It's like, well, because values, they're not created based off of what a book says. They are resonating frequency that every human already has. And then we just we put it in a book afterwards, identifying that this is the common thing we already have. And talking about real life implications, you were saying, even picking up the book, and this is a big difference between academics and even talking about this now. The reason why we were saying it's so difficult is because all the talking in the world doesn't change the fact of what you're trying to do in real life. And talking about idols and resonating, you know, recognizing the people that demonstrate this hemisphere balance. It's like, great, you recognize it. What are you going to do with it? So great. Now you're idolizing these people with a hemisphere balance. You're idealizing the Maximuses. Maybe at one point, we idealized McGilchrist. At one point, we idolized Matthew Ehret. And not to say that we don't look at these individuals, the Maximuses or even James Braddock from Cinderella Man and stuff like that, you know, the way they're portrayed, that just really hits home. Not to say that we don't still feel an emphatic adoration for these individuals and the balance that they seem to be demonstrating in their lives, because we do. But knowing and actually applying the work of the hemispheres, knowing that the brain is always doing a thing. And sometimes a lot of the times we don't know it. We can find the flaws of where people are, their hemispheres are playing out, and they're not putting attention to it. Macy said moral attention is a moral act. If you are not putting attention onto something, sometimes you will get led somewhere unconsciously. The magic trick, the puppeteer will lead you somewhere. Yeah. And I think that that's a great way to kind of lead that. But also, like, it'll be forever expanded upon as we're going throughout our lives. But I'm paying attention to the hemispheres, paying attention to what's going on in your brain, because it's just trying to understand what some of the missing pieces are. And as Maddie was alluding to, it really does play out like we really do get influenced sometimes and we don't even realize it. It's like when you meet those people and you're talking about, maybe you're just talking about people in general, right? And you're like, here's what the, like, do you, like, don't you hate it when people do this, this or that, right? And then someone who does that thing is like, oh, yeah, like, I hate it when people do that. And they literally do it. It's so funny to me. I'm like, bro, like, low key, you didn't even know that we were talking about you, like, right? And including yourself. Like, even if you're the person saying, I hate it when people do that, it's like, maybe because you do too, right? It's like, but that's the thing that is so funny, because when you're seeing those people and they're going like, oh, yeah, like, I hate it when people do that, don't like, right? It's like, you see that they're missing the fact that it's like, hold on now. Like, have you ever considered that you're one of those people, like that you're part of the magic trick? Because you think that you're standing outside of it as some sort of spectator. And then you think that you can write down articles about why, you know, people are like this, or you should act like this, or you should be like this. And it's like, they themselves may not even be doing that psychologically, let alone embodying it. Because if you're not doing it psychologically, then you're not really going to be helping yourself embody it. I mean, like, when you choose, like, when someone goes ahead and they gain the skills of welding, or they gain the skills of cooking, or they gain the skills of being able to handle the audio for a podcast, which Maddie spent all day doing beautifully. It's like, when you gain the skills to go and do a lived thing, it's like, there's values behind that. There's modes of attention behind that. Your hemispheres are at play. And reverse consequently, when we speak of oligarchical figures, it's like they're downstream of something that's going on, both nature and nurture side by side. And so that's where we need to be paying attention to what's going on inside of our minds, so we can try and figure out how to hold ourselves into better account. Because you are just as capable of embodying the beautiful skills for the modes of attention of which you have chosen unconsciously, or consciously. And again, that's where you got to figure out which is it. But you're also just as capable of being that oligarchical type of figure where you deny the fact that you are exactly the person that you claim to hate, right? Well, one thing Miguel said in the very beginning, it might have been the intro, and you definitely embodied it with your, you'd look at other people and go, you would worry about, and you'd be frustrated with things that these people were demonstrating, because you were worried about being it yourself. So you already had that. But what he said was, all it takes is, you know, at the beginning, we talked about the incremental progress into progressing into something. There's also the incremental progress into the decadence that we're in today. People don't just wake up Darth Vader, you know, they make one left hemisphere decision after another, after another, after another, and snowballs. I mean, they double down. And well, yeah, because eventually, you know, the nature of the left hemisphere is that it's self-referential, meaning Hall of Mirrors. And when I say that, I grabbed a picture. We were talking about movies. If you're reading the book, this is Agent Smith from The Matrix. (33:42 - 34:10) The Matrix is probably one of my favorite all-time movies. Next to Lord of the Rings. Yeah, with the Lord of the Rings. And when you look at the nature of Agent Smith, he wanted more me. That was the goal. And left hemisphere, the example we give is that it literally is only in control for the most part of half of the body. (34:10 - 39:56) So, it's the opposite hand. So, if your left hemisphere controls right half of the body, it only knows that half. It's supposed to only know that half. That's its job, because it's supposed to focus on things. So, that means in order to focus things, it has to be limited in its scope. You know, because in order to grasp anything, you have to pinpoint it. You have to be precise, that way you can pick it out. You have to ignore. You have to ignore. You literally have to ignore the rest of reality in order to focus on something. That's what the left hemisphere, its job is for, which can be very, very helpful. But if you let it run rampant, like I said, it ignores the rest of reality. So, it only knows itself. And so, you end up just repeating, you know, the definition everybody knows of insanity is doing the same thing over and expecting something different. That's just the left hemisphere, because it knows nothing else. It doesn't understand that there's another half of the brain. It just wants more of whatever it knows. Certainty. And so, it'll just keep creating more me. You know, the Agent Smith thing. And whereas with the right hemisphere, it'll, it has context of the whole body. It acknowledges the stuff outside of itself. And the reason why I bring that up is because when you're talking about learning about your own brain and this incremental degradation, if you don't learn, this is the one thing, we know people where it's like they recognize the pattern of the hemispheres, you know, but they don't know about the hemisphere works. And they think, why is it again, why do you need to know the hemispheres? Well, like Macy said, paying attention to it, you don't do that thing. If you don't realize that it is a self-referential closed loop, and that's all it knows, you'll just keep, it'll keep doing the same thing over again. And then that's how you end up a Darth Vader. Well, that, and also even asking the question of why do you need to know the hemispheres? There's, you have two answers to that inside of your skull that could answer that question, or even had the motivation to ask in the first place. You're asking that question. It's like, you have two different modes of attention in your head that thought about why that question was worth asking. And then you have two different modes of attention in your head that actually have an answer to that question. And that's another layer of people, of, I guess, understanding that people might not necessarily understand is that it's like, well, what led you to even ask that? And for what reason? And then, well, then what's your answer to that? Is it self-referential? Cause you already know, or is it something else? Are you, are you asking it to allow it to be something else? It's like when you read a book and you're like, I'm going to read this so that way I can like debunk somebody's argument or I'm going to read it just so that I can understand like how to, it's like learning psychology to learn how to better manipulate for your own use or learning psychology to better help, help them or help you understand them for both use. You know what I mean? Yeah. And see, reality is, it's like both, both are going to be, you're going to pick up the book and both hemispheres are going to get their say on it. And then I guess the question is, which one are you going to lean towards? Which one are you going to lean to? The ratio that we were talking about? That's the, that's the moral of this podcast. Cause we are, um, at 38 minutes, so we should probably come to closing remarks, but these are the things that you got to even, this is the point rather than just telling you guys, Oh, this is what the left hemisphere does. This is what the right hemisphere does, which you do have to get to at some point. Um, the point is what is my brain doing? Even picking up the book, even listening to this podcast, listening to any podcast, are you listening to it to confirm something you already believe? Hence that self-referential loop, or are you exploring? Are you trying to understand something that can expand upon your model? Um, really how me and Maycee always talk about it is there's, there's two models, um, two modes of attention. You know, the left hemisphere is a reductionistic model. It's always trying to bring it back to what it knows, bring it back to certainty. Um, hence labels, you know, stuff that I understand, I understand the label of, um, the brain, you know, but when I actually, the right hemisphere, what is the brain? That's a very complicated question. And only the right hemisphere would answer, would understand that the right hemisphere is always trying to expand, add upon, um, different, more knowledge, more context, whereas it's the opposite for the left. And so even picking up the book, listening to a podcast, why are you doing it? There's two modes of attention, not to say, and some, most of the time it's going to be both. Um, but it could be one or the other. You could be leaning towards one or the other, and you want to figure that out. You want to understand why am I pursuing the things that I'm doing? And because both hemispheres have their own values and understanding that you'll start to see the motivations inside yourself of why you do what you do. (39:56 - 41:05) And then you, from there you have to ask, Oh, do I want to be doing it for this motivation? Cause maybe you still want to do the thing, but do I want to do it because of these reasons? Cause that'll change where you land. Yeah. I think that's a good way to end it. I think that, that, like that puts it as well on the level of the responsibility and accountability for the individual, which is, I think is the biggest resonance in learning this knowledge. And so, um, I highly encourage that you guys check out my presentation, even though I was low key kind of upset with the, how, the way I did it, because you know, I'm that person, but, but, um, no, I, I'm, I still think that there's very much some good knowledge in there, even if I'm the one that did it. And then, um, also our sub stack, we have, um, we got, we go through each chapter kind of talking about what resonated to us in the book. Um, highly recommend you read the book and, uh, yeah. So yeah, that's all I got. Well, then this, this has been Holmes Squared. Thanks everybody. Thank you.