Will Dove 00:00 The globalist tyrants are using psychology against the masses to exert control. Most of you already know that a full understanding of this psychological warfare would fill a small library. In fact, many books have already been written on the subject. Not long ago, I interviewed Mark Davidson, computer technologist on the threat that AI poses to us all. Not surprisingly, while studying artificial intelligence, Mark learned a great deal about human psychology. In this interview, the second in this series, Mark gives us a bird's eye view of how seemingly disconnected topics from framing to shape the narrative to the undermining of our children's identity, to the intentional polarization of our society over topics like global warming, and the COVID narrative are, in fact, all part of a massive psychological gaslighting, to frighten and pressure the masses into compliance, and ultimately, to rob them of the very ability to question the authorities. Mark also explains how AI is being used and will be used to further that agenda of psychological control. People will resist having their freedoms taken from them. But those same people will voluntarily give up their freedoms, if only the authorities will save them from a threat, which they themselves do not understand. And almost none will ask if those same authorities manufactured that threatened the first place. Alright, so Mark, welcome back to the show. Hey, Will. All right. So we had this fantastic discussion about AI. But in my discussions with Mark, I discovered, he's actually a student of a lot more than that. He's been a very deep thinker. And he had some revelations for me about the globalist agenda, and helped me to see it more clearly as to what they're after. But he also had given a great deal of thought to how they're implementing this on a psychological level. And that brings me to my first question, please explain the concept of framing? Mark Davidson 02:15 Right? Well, actually, I came across this, I was 14 studying sociology, studying the media. So as a group called the Glasgow Media Group, in England, we had this thing called the miners strike, I'm not sure in Canada, or wherever you are, if you heard this, it was a huge strike between the miners who are striking for better conditions and the politicians. So framing is a technique the media use to essentially, depending on how you want to put this you have this word "spin". Spin, is an evolution of a technique or framing, I would say mind control, because that's really what they're trying to do. So for example, an example of framing is when they interviewed the miners, but then to give their point of view, they would chase him down. And he'd have a backdrop of miners fighting with police in the picture, and, you know, they would ask him a very aggressive, difficult question, and he would give us sort of a flustered answer. When they interviewed the other side, the politician, it would be in a calm, background, calm environment. And they'd be given a softball question, and they would seem very, you know, they would be all reasonable. So they basically were framing is, is using things that we have learned about the subconscious mind that there's a science called NLP, which is Neuro Linguistic Programming, which I've started, which is an attempt to define scientifically, how our subconscious picks up cues like that. I mean, I could go into this a lot more, but let's see if you have any more questions, before I say anything. Does that make sense? Will Dove 04:05 It certainly does. And I think the point that I want to raise is, it's not just that they're their framing, it's the way they're doing it. Because they've got editors who have instructions to take, you know, the best comments that this person made that supports their narrative, and the worst comments that this person made to destroy their narrative. And you're never going to get a balanced picture, because they're not going to show you everything that people said, or the situation under which they send them. And then not only that, but it's not just the environments, they'll go, and they'll pick the best most articulate politician. And then they'll interview a dozen people on the streets at this protest. And they'll pick the one who was least able to express themselves. Mark Davidson 04:51 Yeah, so there's absolutely no objectivity in media whatsoever. I mean, it never was. But once people realize is that they haven't. So I mean, as an audience, let's take this just pick people we know, BBC or CNN. They know - the editor knows what their viewers want to hear. And so they frame everything to to that, right? So it really it's the earliest type of disinformation. They're always talking about disinformation, but they are the absolute disinformation experts. They would know because they've been doing this for 30 to 40 years like -- Will Dove 05:32 -- and ironically to the point where they label everything we say, as disinformation. Of course they do. Right. There's your there's your doublespeak, for those who have read 1984. What does disinformation mean from the mainstream media? Well, it means they're telling you the truth. Mark Davidson 05:46 If we sat them down, an editor from CNN or something that say, Well, you know, the CNN has to make money, we have to have ratings, we have to have advertisers. So we have to do this, that will be their excuse. Well fine, but don't pretend that you're objective media, there is no objective media, there are no independent journalists, they're trained to frame or pause all information into this viewpoint. And it's not just you know, it's not just the one side, obviously, Fox, it doesn't matter who they are, right? Everybody's got an agenda, every editor as a human being, right. But the problem is that when you have mass media, and only a few companies owning everything, is easier to give a directive from the top that sort of creates a unifying narrative. So we - this word 'narrative' is very related, right? So narrative is the story, that person at the top once told to everybody, and then framing is how they do it. Will Dove 06:45 Right. And I don't know what it's like in the US where you are, or in Great Britain, where you're from, but here in Canada, the government gives billions every year to the media companies that basically buys their loyalty. So that they will say whatever narrative the government tells them to say, because if they don't, they're gonna go under. And ironically, the studies are showing they're gonna go under in the next few years anyway, no matter how much money the government gives him, because nobody's listening to them anymore. Mark Davidson 07:10 Well, it's very similar to the political situation with funding right? Can you truly have politicians working for your benefit, if they have to, you know, have $100 million to run for office and get that money from vested interests, they ultimately have to pander to the vested interests. I mean, we all know that most of these politicians are essentially owned by Wall Street, pharma, petrochemical. These are the people that own them, right. And it's the same thing with the media. They're all owned by the same people that are owned by Pharma or Wall Street. All these big powerful groups have the door. So the only way you could truly have an independent media is the public to fund that, you know. With the BBC, to some extent was, but then that came under massive political pressure. Because of that, so I really don't think we have the only independent media is people like you, Will. I mean, you are the independent media who is, you know, trying to tell people the truth, and then they've tried to make it, you know, to marginalize anybody with a platform. Right? Because now the Internet is a type of media, and that they are the same people who own all the big media now on all those platforms. They own Google, the searches all the search engines they own. I can't think of all the platforms right now. But all the social media platforms are all owned by the same people. I think it was I mean, we watched it right? How easy it was for them to implement a framing disinformation campaign over these shots. Right? It was incredible. And they had to have had that in place before this thing went down. It wasn't like they just cobbled it together. Oh, you know, I think they already had it. Will Dove 09:03 Right? Now we're talking about framing within the context of the psychology of tyranny, how they're controlling the masses. And so I think where we have to go with this next is to social media, to the internet. We've already established that mass media is controlled; it's staged, it's state sponsored media. So no surprise that they're framing things in a way that is favorable to their narrative. But what we've got now is, is millions upon millions of people on social media, picking it up and parroting it when they have no financial interest in it. And so I think we have to get into a discussion of why. Why are they not just buying into this, why are they promoting the narrative? When when and I think the important thing we have to make this point we have to make here is the vast majority of people if you asked them, they said, do you trust mainstream media? They'd probably say no. Even if they listened to it, they'd probably say no. So why in the world are they out there parroting what the mainstream media is telling them when they don't trust them? Mark Davidson 09:59 That's a very good question. That's a very deep question. I'm not sure how deep down the rabbit hole, you want to go on that one. But, um, you know, what, why are people - what are people actually reading on their social media streams? That's the first question. Right? Where are they getting? Because that was a an example was easier to use what's happened with the shots, right? Because if you said to people, well, why are you taking this? They will come back with a Where are you getting your information? As if somehow their information was secret? Right? Because they were being told, you know, anything that questions this is disinformation. So I think that the first point is, well, how do people select their best sources of information? Um, I don't think most people put that much thought into it. They just kind of signed up for Facebook and they have Google searches. It's not like they're sitting there thinking about, you know, is this a trully independent source of information? I think most people don't really think too much on these things. And it's just, it's just what most people have fallen into. Because the technology is easily available, it's easier to go to Google, it's easier to go on Facebook. Right? I mean, it takes work again, it's like our discussion, on the AI, it takes work to think about this, and how do I actually get independent, truly independent information is actually a very difficult thing to do. Will Dove 11:29 I think where we could maybe put this in some sort of context, and something has just occurred to me, it was a book I read a few years ago, and I wish I could remember the title or the author, I'm afraid I cannot. But he made some really good points about why most people don't think deeply. And he said, The human brain is designed to have sort of two different avenues of thinking. There's A and B, and A is what we default to. "A" makes decisions on a very surface level. You know, to think about what and why it's not a bad thing, we need that. Think about if you had to consciously think about getting out of bed, putting your feet on the floor, standing up walking into - you'd be exhausted by breakfast. And we have to, we have to have that autopilot. Yeah, the brain only flips over to "B" when something in a just, it's clearly going to lead to some sort of detrimental result. And so for the most people, they never flipped over from "A". And even if they're not say, watching mainstream media, they're on social media. And if they search for anything that's along the narrative of COVID, or, you know, global warming or anything like that, what they're probably going to get back on anything other than, say, independent channels like Rumble. They don't they're on Facebook, or YouTube, or whatever we're trying to get back is mostly clips from mainstream media, which has along with that message packaged in the idea that anything that you hear that opposes what we've just told you is disinformation, and you should automatically discount it. And I think that's your explanation right there for why these people with -- you come to them, and you give them the actual facts. Their answer is where you're getting your information from? Mark Davidson 13:19 That is a deep rabbit hole, my friend. I mean, I could go I mean, I can give you a lot like, um, you know, and it ties back to the discussion by AI. And I said, the AI is trained from an initial set of data, once trained, that's it. Well, essentially, for most people, that's also true. So if you put a person into a culture, and you put them through education, and then they've been bombarded as they're growing up through social media, and whatever that also is, that's that data. And that's the training. The way the mind works, you talked about the A and the B with that might be the work that you're referring to who's head of Cognitive Psychology at Harvard, did a lot of work on this. So what he's talking about there is that most of the time, we kind of don't question. What we think actually takes a lot of work. So self questioning is called introspection. That's to question it. Now, people think, though, that they are questioning it. Okay, this is why so they'll say, Well, I - when I had this conversation with someone, let's say, Well, I went on Google. And I fact checked that and what you're saying is not true. And I said, Well, that's not really fact checking it going on Google. I said, you've got to go on to other platforms that aren't framing and censoring, to only give you information that already agrees with you. So I mean, this is a very hard concept to get across to people that what you know, if you realize that the knowledge that you currently have has been sort of download it like this. How'd you even change that? How do you question that? It's actually, you know, we're not taught that in school, we're not. We had this discussion about what I called divergent thinking. There's a certain small percentage of the population who just naturally, you and I would be that who have always questioned, we just couldn't help it. It's like even all through school, we just had to question everything. This is not the default. This is not how most people think. And this is not the default setting. And this is a, this is a big problem. When the download that everybody got is, in fact, disinformation. Will Dove 15:35 Right. And many of my viewers are, as you described, divergent thinkers. That's why they're watching this because they want the truth, right? But it leads to another problem. And I'm going somewhere with this. So we're, we're not really going on a rabbit trail, I'm going somewhere, because I made reference to say Rumble, and then there's other channels, there's Liberti, there's a few others that they don't censor beyond, you know, common decency. And you know, you can't put a snuff film on there. But if you've got an opposing viewpoint to the narrative, you can put it on there. But here's a problem. That also lets in the complete nut jobs, right, which we - so now you've got the opposite problem of you want the truth, but you got to filter out the nutters to figure out what makes sense here. And it is a lot of work. Because you can do your homework, you can't just watch a video, you then you have to go and look up some of the things that they refer to and get to a point where you have at least a basic understanding of them before you can make your own judgment about it. Mark Davidson 16:32 Yeah, I mean, absolutely. I say to people who got talking to me. And they're like, You're not You're hurting my head. You're blowing my mind. It's like, well, yeah, you know, thinking for yourself is a lot of work. It's hard work. It's not like you can just go to the Ministry of Truth or this, the internet site of facts. There is no such thing. This is an illusion that the power have created to manipulate people. Right. So I mean, I don't believe in any type of censorship, because ultimately - who is going to decide, right? Who's going to move that and the minute you have censorship, you have framing, you have filtering out disinformation. There has to be truth. So now I don't, you know, you have to rely on the person. Now. Okay. There's some horrible things out there, if you don't censor but - what is that expression about that? Yeah, it's the lesser of two evils. You know, Hobson's choice really there. You know, the minute you give the power an excuse to censor, which we've seen, right? You've had you've had it, because they'll label everything that they don't want you to see as disinformation, as bad. Will Dove 17:46 Yes. And I'm glad that you went in that direction, because it allows me much more easily to go where I was going with this. There are parental control apps, right. And many parents use them and probably should, because there are things online that children are not prepared to see and process yet. Yes, great. But what the globalist tyrants want to do is treat us all, like children, right? Not just frame their own narrative, but prevent us from accessing the truth in Canada, we've got two bills right now C-18, C-11, and a few others that are attempting to control what you can access on social media. So yeah, that gets us back to this psychology of tyranny, that they are actively working, not just to treat us like children, but to get grown adults to accept that they are children, and that they should let the government tell them what's true, they should let the government make decisions for them. Mark Davidson 18:46 Yeah, I mean, we were just talking, I mean, this, I do think this has gotten worse since COVID. I think this is a complicated issue. I think that one of the effects of locking everybody down, and the constant bombardment with fear and trauma is that people have almost regressed to this childlike state where they're just like, you know, that they're looking to some authority to kind of protect them like a parent. And they don't want to take the responsibility to think themselves, Oh, it's all too much for me, you know, but the minute you do that, it, the history shows us. We don't have to make a prediction, because we already know we've seen all through history, what happens when you do that. And this sensitive is kind of like digital book burning, you know, it's like, the Nazis burned all the information that they didn't like, and they're essentially doing that on the internet. They've done it right. We saw it last year, they just removed the platform, everything they didn't want you to see. Right. And that means that they saw and I mean, honestly, this is so unbelievably dangerous. And I think that the worst part about it is the fact that most people are not even aware that this has happened. I talk to people like what's de-platforming? Why? What are you talking about? They have no awareness that all scientific opposition was censored to the shots like this massive body of science and knowledge and experts. So people know, well, there aren't any scientists against this. The same with the global warming, you know, there aren't any science. It's, it's well, no, I mean, not if you censor them all, and you make it, you know, ubiquitous and no one can ever find them. Will Dove 20:23 That's a really, a good particular point was when the Pfizer documents, the first set of Pfizer documents got released showing over 1200 deaths in the first tests. 50 years ago, mainstream media would have been all over that. Right, they never touched it. Not a single report on mainstream media, because of course, they don't want people to know. But now, here's where I wanted to go with this. Because I've been leading to a point, because we've been talking about the psychology of tyranny. We've talked about the fact that even if you want to do your own homework, you have the opposite problem of filtering out the crazy. So you have to be a real grownup. Now, if you want to take responsibility for what you're, what you're looking at, and for checking it yourself. And now, I want to bring in because we were talking again, once again about the psychology of tyranny. And we went from there, to they want to treat us all like children. But I would say they're going beyond that. They're manufacturing, adult children. And a recent discussion I had with another guest - we talked about the idea that what we have going on right now is not a political right / left spectrum. It's an emotional maturity spectrum. People on the right tend to be far more emotionally mature, they tend to be for example, I'm going to use myself as an example I identify as a libertarian. Okay, and I just jokingly use that term identify folks, that was on purpose. That was a joke, okay. But a libertarian is someone who believes in absolute minimum government - maximum personal rights, and responsibilities. A lot of people don't want to talk about that second part. So as a libertarian, I believe that if I could have a system with that absolute minimum government, it means I have to take greater responsibility for my contribution to society. If you took like a look at somebody on the left like these transgender nuts, right? It's all about them. And you can literally see them screaming and stamping their feet and shaking their fists, because they're being disenfranchised and their rights are being trampled on. And they're not being given the consideration. They feel they deserve the rights they feel they deserve. And I think that this is an intentional attack, especially upon young people, to turn them into adult children, who can then be easily manipulated, because, well, I can't possibly understand all of this. So I'll just let the government make my decisions for me. And I won't question anything they tell me as long as they give me my rights. Mark Davidson 22:42 There's a lot to unpack there. I think, you know, one of the tactics, I would say there's the old Sun Tzu, divide and conquer. If you look at everything they've spent the last 20 years dividing people, it's never 80/20, it's 50/50. If they can do it over absolutely everything so that there's just this complete deadlock, and nothing ever gets done. You know, and they use as an excuse to the politicians like see, we can't do anything because we're deadlocked. And they blame it on that. The truth is, they don't do anything because they don't really - they're not really your real government. They're owned by all these vested interests. So they need a plausible deniability, right? Oh, it's your fault, you know, we're all divided. And so the other element there is the government was becoming irrelevant. People were realizing the government doesn't do anything for us. And so they weren't voting. And they were, they were getting sort of coming out with revolutionary ideas. So they didn't, the politicians don't like that. So they've tried to create this society that's dependent on the politicians, which will tie into we'll talk about the economic stuff, eventually, that, you know, in the future, what they want is a society where we are completely dependent on them for everything, like a nanny, a nanny state, they used to call it in the UK. Will Dove 24:03 Well, a Nannie State is exactly what we have here in Canada. Mark Davidson 24:06 Yeah. Because it's power that gives them that they were becoming irrelevant, and nobody cared about the politicians, and now they've made themselves very self important. Through COVID and everything else, right they've you know, I think there's more to it than that, though. Um, you know, gets into, you know, how much we want to get into what the real agendas are here. I mean, I think there's, we've said there's a depopulation agenda. This is obvious. And so, you know, I sort of think of it as death by 1000 cancers, what they're going for here is not because if you make something really big, it's obvious. So instead, we've got a whole lot of agendas in the depopulation agenda, right. Um... encouraging when I am completely just so you know, I have no problem with sexuality, gay or whatever, but it does help to depopulate the planet. Um, you know, all of these things. So they're encouraging. It'd be one thing if they're what I call organic if people discover for themselves that I am transgender, I am gay, but that's not what's happening right? They're, that, again, actively sort of programming. This was shown in some of your videos that I wasn't even aware like this was going on in like with young kids in school. Yeah, so there's clearly an agenda there. It's not an organic movement, it's that there's a top down agenda here with that's clearly obvious. I agree with you. Will Dove 25:44 Yes, and an agenda to change our very culture to Yes, basically rewire human nature, to create this populace of dependent infants, who will go along with whatever they're told to do. Mark Davidson 25:59 Some sort of obsession with, with an idea of identity, right? Of almost narcissism over who am I who am I, in a narcissistic way, rather than just sort of, like we did you know, you organically go out to life, and you just find out through through living, instead, you're trying to define, I am this person by my sexuality, or this or that, or black or white, or whatever it is, and that that just opens up this divide and conquer, right? Because people are so rigid in they can't process the that's what I've noticed, they cannot listen to or process the opposing point of view at all. Right? If there only - it's tribalism, like if you're in the opposing tribe, they just attack you no matter how reasonable how reasoning that you are. And once you reach that point where you cannot have any reason or debate, the power of one because they've got everybody divided up into these tribes are all attacking each other and not, they're not doing is looking and saying, Well, who's pulling the strings, who's creating this guy, this is what I've watched over the last 20 years and do this, you know, it's just horrific, really. Will Dove 27:14 So where I was going with this was, as you said, you've got these people that they just they, you can hit them with an opposing viewpoint, it doesn't matter how many facts you have. It won't, they won't look at them. And if they will look at them, they will not acknowledge them, right? And I have my own pet theory of why that is. And like I said, Neither you nor I are psychologists, but I still want your thoughts on this. I think it is because and it comes back to - I have to back up a little bit. The transgender movement, a lot of other things that our youth are being attacked with to undermine their identity. And I think the transgender movement is very, very intentional, because I would argue that the basis of our identity is our gender, it's the first thing that we notice about ourselves that is different from people around us. Boys notice that they are not girls, girls, notice that they are not boys. And we do this at a very young age. And then we build on that, to have our own identity. And they're trying to take that fundamental principle away. So what they're doing that so that they can replace it with the the state sponsored identity that they want you to have. And I think this is why you run into these people. And remember, folks, I'm throwing together once again, certain concepts because really what we're talking about, it's not a political spectrum. It's an emotional maturity spectrum. Emotionally Mature people can have their beliefs questioned, and will sit back and go, Well, maybe they've got a - I should think about that. An emotionally immature person will say, No, no, no, no. And the reason why they won't, and this is where I wanted to go with this is because that belief has become part of their identity. And if they do let go of it, they're letting go of part of themselves. And they don't know who they are. And so they can't do that. What do you think of that? Mark Davidson 28:58 I think you're right. I think it's very, it's a very powerful tool of control. Isn't that? I mean, I didn't even know this was really going on. I started you know, so I don't think most parents and old people were even aware until it's kind of too late that this whole generation we're being I use this controversial word Program because it to me it's, as I said, a kind of type of programming. No, I don't challenge the fact that there are a number of people with body dysmorphia, gender dysmorphia, whatever, but how can it go from what it was to what we have now? You know, people would say, like, psychologists, I suppose, are encouraging this. They say, Well, you know, look at the suicide rates and whatever I'm like, Yeah, but those people organically like I said, discovered that won't be their sexuality or their gender, but that's not what's happening is it? You're sitting there getting in there with very young kids and putting that idea out there. And if people don't believe that you can influence people, well, obviously you can, as I say to people, look at culture, like, there's Chinese culture, there's Islamic culture, there's Atheist culture, if you didn't affect people with schooling and culture, they wouldn't exist. I mean, you know, there's more Christians in the United States, there's more Islamic people in Islamic countries and atheists in China, there has to be a reason for that, right? It's not random. So obviously, what you're taught in school and your culture does affect people. Will Dove 30:37 And you made that really good point about Islamics and Christians and atheists, I think one of the reasons why they're attacking religion so strongly, is because once again, that is a form of identity, and not just a form of indentity, it's a dangerous one, because it has an independent standard of right and wrong. And they want to replace those identities; gender, religion, nationality, all of that with this globalist identity, which really isn't an identity at all. It's an arrested state of emotional development. Mark Davidson 31:15 Yeah, I mean, it depends how far down the rabbit hole you want to go with this one. I mean, the question then is why, what other than divide and conquer and sort of making people dependent on the state? So I don't think it's just that. I don't - I think that I see what the end goal is. And the end goal relates to these other issues of technology, I believe, I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure about this, that the end goal of this is not just a global system, right? The vision that they have is, I don't know what we would want to call this. But so transhuman is part of it. Right? So integrating technology. Another part is changing the genome, what I realized is the minute you start changing the body, you can essentially do anything, you could change genders, you could change even the physical nature of your body. And in that world, you wouldn't have a strong sense of gender identity, or sexuality or any of those things, it would all go away. So I think they are sort of laying the groundwork for that, this massive shift to that. To why would be a good thing to start changing our genes and changing our bodies. And I think most religious people would not, for example, you brought up religion, religious people would not want to agree with that, right? Because they will consider that as changing God's work. So then they just sort of, it's very interesting. I think that there, I tell people that these power elites are not stupid, like they plan and think ahead, like a game of chess, I was pretty good at chess, I could think, you know, five to seven moves ahead, and they do the same thing. They're always laying the groundwork for another 10, 15, 20 years ahead. And I think this is that. What's going on with all of that is groundwork for this world they envisage, where we will just give up on being human 1.0. Well, we will become human 2.0 3.0, 4.0. Well, we will - in their world, they would happen to leave, you know, human beings behind altogether and create in us in a lab, to whatever the programming they want. I mean, I'm dead serious, like, it's hard for most people, right? You can see that, but that's really I think, where they want to go. Will Dove 33:42 Yes. And it's, it's interesting marketing. And this personal comment, folks, Mark and I have had a number of discussions that we keep finding commonalities. You just mentioned chess, I don't play anymore, but I was actually the college chess champion. And so I know exactly what you mean by your skill at chess is basically determined by how many moves ahead, you can see. Yeah, so we're gonna get into and I'm going to, I said all of that to you as a chess term. In our third interview, we're going to get into the end game. Yeah, but for right now, I want to pursue something that you were just talking about. There was a movie, I think I came out in 1997, called Gattaca. And it was about genetically engineering children in the womb, they would adjust the genes while they were still just a clump of cells in order to produce these genetically perfect humans. It was actually quite a good movie, if you've never seen it, and it did explore the dystopian elements of that to a certain extent. But I don't think that's what they want. They don't want to make perfect humans. Now they want to make controllable humans. Right. And so I think you're right. I think that that's probably part of their plan is eventually to be able to adjust genes in the womb to produce human beings that are going to be what they want. And I think you've given that more thought than I have. So what do they want? What what is their perfect Human Being? Mark Davidson 35:01 Yeah, I mean, putting a lot of things that I've researched together, I think that their endgame, I call it, the Spock solution. If you think of Spock's character from Star Trek, he came from a planet where they nearly destroyed themselves through technology. And then they removed all emotion and just became these logical, intellectual beings, right? These scientists who are working on a lesser or high IQ, high intellect, low emotion, they don't value emotion, I believe that they want to move us to what they see, human beings, human humanity itself as the problem. They really do. I have talked to a couple of the scientists, they believe in the Spock solution, if we could all just be, you know, essentially a robot like, no emotion. So I think they want to manipulate the human genome. So turn us like that and also make people less questioning, less divergent, more following what they're told, being a good citizen. We hear about this word that they use. It's not - they don't say communism, but it's really what it is a "Collectivism". So they want to instill this sort of, sort of intellectual drone, hive, drone. hive mind, if you like is where I think you know, plugged into the metaverse or thinking the same. But of course, the elites themselves don't want that. Right. They're going to be separate, still, with their independence and their personality and everything, apart from everybody else. Right, I really believe that is what they are. And the reason that they did that is because it is a logical solution to this problem. I mentioned the filter, which is, well, what's the biggest variable and having all this technology, they're obsessed. Their God is pushing the boundaries of science, and what's the biggest danger in that it's human nature. So if we can use that technology to eliminate human eliminate, human nature and control everybody, the ultimate, they need the ultimate control over everybody. They can monitor you, use AI to monitor everybody, predict any dangerous behavior. This is - which they can do it, I mean, essentially the next 10 to 20 years, they can do this, Will Dove 37:19 And then it goes even beyond that. Where we started this whole conversation, talking about framing, right. And now you've just mentioned AI. And in our first conversation about AI, we talked about how it can be used to basically shift your own reality they can, they could, they could use it for to use a different definition of the word framing, they could frame you for a crime, for instance, right? Or they can control your movements, because they can predict what you're about to do. But here's an even more scary thought. By monitoring your activities, and the things that you say, you write down the things that you say at home in private because they can turn on your listening devices, they could now have a boss that would start to nudge you personally, not the whole society - you personally, in the direction that they want you to go. Hmm. Mark Davidson 38:11 Yeah, I mean, that's, that's even with with current technology. But I, I really am of the view that these shots and this is controversial, but I really see as a scientists that they've been basically working towards what I'm saying, because how would you change everybody's genes, you would need to test that. So we talked a little bit about that is all offline, like how scientific method works, and that it's incredibly difficult in a lab setting to actually develop a technology like gene manipulation. And the reason is complicated, but it's because there's so much genetic variation between people, you can't do it with a small sample size in a lab. That's the simplest explanation. You need to test it on a very wide population. Well, that's what I think I think what we've just seen is a step towards that. I really don't like it - certainly was nothing to do with COVID. So if it was nothing to do with that, you know, there had to be another agenda. And this, this is what I think is to do with and I think eventually there will be a shot. Or it may be already in the shots that starts to change people's genes. And it would be so insidious, because they say there's something in there that maybe starts to make people more 'less questioning', will follow orders. Would you be able to even if it did this slowly over 5, 10 years, would you be able to identify that I mean? Will Dove 39:39 I can confirm they're already doing it. So let's take two separate facts, one that everybody knows and one that very few people know, the one that everybody knows is the fear mongering. What does that do in the human brain? Well, you and I both know it's going to activate the amygdala, which is going to release certain brain chemicals and the amygdala, in the cerebral cortex there like a scale. The more that one is firing, the less the other is. So you can activate that immediately - think at that fear response going, you've automatically shut down a lot of the higher cognitive functions right? Now combine that with the spike proteins in the shots. And in my interview with Dr. Stephanie Seneff, who's one of the foremost experts on what the shots do to people biologically, she demonstrated that they - the spike proteins cross the blood brain barrier, and they actually cause physical brain damage a form of manufactured senism, like Alzheimers, I believe. And I asked her this question bluntly, I said, Do you think these shots are in part designed to make people and this is the word I used, Stupid? She said, Yes. Mark Davidson 40:45 Yeah, I agree. So in people that I know is a shift in their personality. And I've talked to lots of people. And they've said they've seen the same thing. And it's a difficult thing to talk about, because you could explain it. But there's, something's happened, right? And I see it, even in my work. I won't say too much, because I don't make it too personal. But something is happening here. And you could try to explain it as always, due to the lock downs and fear. And that's part of it. But I do think there's something happened here, where people, it's almost like they've all dropped 10 IQ points in this debate. You know, if you're aware of research on prions disease, which was, predates it was known through mRNA on animals like a rabies vaccine that this has the potential to cause, essentially what you're saying through prions disease. So that was a concern. I think a lot of scientists had right from the beginning when they suggested using mRNA. Like, well, why did this, as I say to people, why would you use a technology that has never been used by humans, but has been tested on animals and had all these known problems? And it's actually incredible, like, I mean -- Will Dove 41:21 -- because it produces a particular result. And I think at this point in time, we can tie all this up, everything we've discussed into one very neat package. Because yes, it's all about control. And how are they doing? Well, we talked a little bit about what they might be able to do in the future. But let's talk about what they're doing right now. Because we can tie together three different concepts. One, the constant fear mongering, which of which the framing we started with is part, right? The shift, to divide and conquer to basically reinforce these immature, emotionally mentally immature behaviors to make adult children. Mark Davidson 42:35 I call it reactiveness. They've replaced sort of, you know, reflectiveness, and people standing back and saying, look, as you said, think about this, with this just, you know, very aggressive reactiveness to everything, to shut down or possibility of conversation, Will Dove 42:52 Right. And then we've got the constant fear mongering, basically activate that amygdala. Yeah, people were afraid. So they stopped thinking, using the higher brain functions, to divide and conquer, so that they see anybody who disagrees with them as a threat. And third, the shots, which are in fact, making people stupid, and what do you get, you get a population of easily controlled children. Now, the fear is a really important part of this. Because anybody watching this who has raised kids, you may have a child who is a little recalcitrant, they don't want to follow orders. And if you're telling your child to do a certain thing, under situations where they are calm, and they do not see any immediate threats, they will very likely resist. But if that child perceives a threat, and you are their obvious protector, and you tell them to do something that they believe will protect them from that threat, they will instantly obey you. Right? And that's what you end up with a society of people who are afraid, can't think, receive a threat, a threat, of course, that was manufactured by those very globalists. So the globalist can turn around and say, Well, if you do this, then you'll be okay. You just listen to us, you'll be okay. Because it's really difficult to control people through force. But it's very easy to control people when you have their own cooperation and doing so. Mark Davidson 44:14 Yeah, I mean, it's so I use this word insidious. I mean, if you look at Orwell's 1984 I don't think that really applies. In Orwell's 1984, it's overt totalitarianism. This is a new type of totalitarianism. I call it a sort of mind slavery. A mind prison where people have been conscripted into these elites' agendas, and they're not even aware that this has happened. Yeah, this is what started. And it's they're doing the work for them. Not even aware that they are, you know, and because they're unable, even possibly, as we said, why they couldn't question before because it's not something they were trained to do, but now they may be incapable of questioning because These shots on the fear. But the two things together are making them incapable of questioning. I always think of on the show like me, you know, you looked at the what happened in Nazi Germany like, why did that happen? I as a child, I wanted to know. And how could it be that all the journalists just didn't see this. Well the answer is, they did see it, similar to this. So they couldn't deal with what they were seeing. It was that, you know, they didn't want to be the one to put their head above the parapet. And so they just put their head down. And that's another part of it. I think people were, everybody in this society had been conditioned to be kind of narcissistic and self absorbed and selfish is a part of their so Oh, I know, I don't want to be the person at work to say something and cause trouble, right?is collectivism again, nobody wants to be the troublemaker. Will Dove 45:56 And I think you've touched on a really important point of the psychology that we haven't talked about yet. And a statement I've made many times, and my viewers are probably getting tired of hearing, hear me say this, I'm going to refer to it very briefly is that tyrants gain power through fear, specifically fear of loss, right. And one of the things that they scare people with is a loss of social acceptance. And that's a much bigger one than people realize. And human beings are social animals. And so what they're doing is they're creating this environment of all these factors we already discussed, with the threat that if you go against that message, that state sponsored message, you will be ejected from the herd. And it's not just being ejected from a hurt, it's being ejected from the state sponsored, approved herd. So you're not just going to be a social outcast, you're going to be a political outcast, and you're going to be targeted for it. Mark Davidson 46:47 Yeah, I mean, they were very clever one day with this, framing narrative of following the science, I mean, think how clever that was, this is where you have to get into the mindset, I say to people, you have to realize and appreciate the evil, the evil genius of these people. I mean, they didn't just randomly come up with that. It's like, oh, today, I think we'll call it following the science when they really, obviously fall about this, because it disarmed. It made all these people following this feel, Oh, I'm following the science. You know, this is about science. And know, it brings in the white coat, the conformity thing, the authoritarianism. I mean, I can't I can't I don't we're bringing personal things up. But my wife said to me, oh, you know, I spoke to so and so and they have a degree in science. And I said, Yeah, but what science I mean, there's a lot of sciences, you know. And that same study studied immunology, which I have, you have, like, you don't have to go have a degree in it. You could go study things for yourself. I studied immunology for 10 years. And if you had you knew this was not the science, this was just at an utter insert whatever word you want. And so you also knew that there must be 10s of 1000s of scientists who knew that this was also so the probably like me, you was scratching your head at the beginning saying why aren't they stepping up? And the answer is what you just said, because they would lose their professorship, that tenureship, you know, as a professor, they would lose their funding for their research, they would be attacked by all their colleagues. It's all of these pressures, right, that make people conform. It's very, very powerful. Will Dove 48:34 And those are just the scientists who have the requisite knowledge to understand what's going on. The statement is very aptly been made that any scientist outside their area of expertise is just another layman. Yeah, you can be a PhD in geophysics. You don't know the first thing about immunology. You don't know any more about it than then the average person does. And so you've got a once again, a double pronged problem. And I agree with you that 'follow the science' statement are very carefully crafted. Why? Well, because and this is not a criticism of people, but the average person has almost no understanding of science, right? It's not because they're stupid. T hey're not. It's because they've never either had a reason to study it, or they've had the inclination to study, or didn't have the time to study it. They may have a long list of impressive skills in other areas. They knew that most people knew almost nothing about virology. And right, because you made that statement. I knew it was BS, right from the start, because I knew one particular fact about virology that most people do not know. And from that fact, I was able to discern this is all BS. Right? But I was a rare case of knowing that right? And now you so you take the masses that don't know those things, have never had an inclination to study them. And once you it's not a criticism to everybody's got their own lives to live, their own inclinations. And you combine it with the fact that you've got an awful lot of real scientists out there who do have degrees in science but what they have a degree in has absolutely nothing to do with this narrative. So they go along with it. And now you've got the people who know nothing about science saying, Well, I know this scientist, and he believes all of this, therefore, it must be true Mark Davidson 50:13 Yeah, if we allow a physicist or something. I mean, it's laughable, like, you know, again, people will end up in this situation I've had this said to me a lot, well, well, Mark, you know, you've spent your life studying things. Well, I don't have that time, or I don't have that ability. So I just have to believe what I'm told, I'm like, Well, if you do that, you're essentially giving all your power over to somebody else. So then it becomes a trust issue. So I'd say to people, well, what is the track record of, for example, pharma companies? Have they ever lied? Have they ever lost lawsuits? Well, you know, the answers of that one. They've lied, plenty and lost the biggest lawsuits in history. So again, I would say to people, why are you trusting them? That's, you're trusting the government, who everybody knows lies, and pharma companies who have a track record of lying. So I mean, so we get into that thing about double think, right? That's like, the real reason people did it is they just don't want to go against what they felt was the, you know, the herd, right? They don't want to be the the odd person out and deal with that. Will Dove 51:22 So I think where we have to finish up this interview is with talking about, at what point in time, do the masses start to question because something that both you and I know is you can throw facts at people all day long. But if they are not questioning, if they are not prepared to listen to them, it's pointless. Why am I on interview number 340 some odd? Is it because I think these interviews are going to convince people who weren't prepared to listen, no, it's because I am consciously building a database of knowledge. So that when people do start to question, they can go to our website, its ironwiredaily.com, StrongandFreeCanada.org and they can enter in any kind of search term they want and they will find interviews with experts, who will tell them the truth. But I cannot put that information in front of people who are not prepared to listen to it, and expect that I'm going to get anywhere. And so I think I have my own thoughts on at what point in time people start to question, but I'd like to hear yours first. Mark Davidson 52:18 I don't think people question until they personally, something happens in their personal sphere that makes them question, you know, a loved one, something happens or they themselves, their health, they might start to question then. I from what I've seen of people that that's it. And the other thing, I think, is what we're going to go on to talk about, which is what's going to happen in terms of the economy and sort of world events. But then I feel that it's also going to be used to just you know, one of the tools we didn't talk about is distraction. I say the oh, these other events as into question what's happened with all that? And see the the horrifying effects of the shots, they will be distracted by even bigger problems. Will Dove 53:04 Yes, it's no coincidence. I don't think it's a coincidence that Trudeau has canceled the Emergency Measures Act hours before the war in Ukraine started. Mark Davidson 53:13 Right. I mean, that again, these people are not stupid. They're playing a game of chess and they've planned their moves ahead. And they know ultimately, that people will, enough people will. And they've planned out a counter that, you know, we call this, you know, snaring out, you know, things I explain to people is that, you know, it's like Putin. People said to me, I Putin these crazies, like Putin understand he has geniuses in a room who have war gamed out a strategy and thought of every eventuality. People, these people don't just wake up one day and say, I'm going to invade the Ukraine, but that's how the Western media kind of portrays all these events and they go with what I call the stupid excuse, you know, they did this because they're stupid. Yeah, that's just not believable in the real world, like these people know that there's things going on which we will think that have been set in motion for a very long time, but the average person just doesn't have any clue about. So that's my concern is that yes, people will start to wake up to the vaccine and then that's when the next play comes, which is expanding WWIII, and collapsing the financial system as if that nothing distracts you from your health problems, like losing your job in your house. And WWIII, you know, yes. Will Dove 54:39 And I agree with you. Absolutely. Yes. It's people will only - most people will only start to question when it has an adverse effect upon their own personal lives. Hmm. Mark Davidson 54:50 And even some of them that I know not even then because they can't admit to themselves that they made a mistake or that they would do you know, it's a very horrible situation. And now and now most of us on the other side of it with friends that don't want to say anything, because we know it creates a friction, right? So they create this wall of silence between people. You can't even say anything. Will Dove 55:12 Yeah, and it's very dangerous. It's the reason why people like you, people like we have to speak out. Yeah, it gets to an irretrievable point. And you mentioned earlier, Nazi Germany, and what they did with the Jews and why people went along with it. But it wasn't just the German people that stood by and did nothing, it was the Jews themselves, who allow themselves to be corralled and controlled to the point where quite literally 10s and 10s of 1000s of them dug their own grave, and then stood there waiting to be shot. And you're right, we are going to have that problem to fight against if we let those go on long enough, where people will be sick and dying, and people around them will be dying, and they'll be going broke, and they'll be starving. And they'll continue to comply. Mark Davidson 56:01 Yeah, I think is the total of people. I think it's because the average person just cannot conceive and I'll use this word, eat how evil these these people in power are. They just can't believe it. They don't want to believe it. But unfortunately, that won't change reality. It won't change what happened. It hasn't all through history, and it's not going to change it now. You know? So ignorance is bliss, I say to people, but not when you get to the end game, you know, that maybe Germans in 1933, whatever, thought ignorance is bliss but by 1945 they regretted it, right? They wish they'd thought about it and challenged what was happening. And it's going to be the same with people now, I think. Will Dove 56:48 And I think that it leads us to the conclusion that the only thing that we can do that is really effective is continue to spread the truth to wake up more and more people. Because the more people we have, who will resist the narrative, the sooner we can end this, and hopefully, we can end it before it gets to a point of absolute disaster. Mark Davidson 57:06 Yeah, I think that has to be now like is, if you as I say to people, you know, one person that you can sort of have a conversation actually not that you know, another shouting match, but then actually listen, then you've got to talk to that person. You - we only - I think I saw a study once like you don't need 50% of the people, you only need like 5% to 10% of the people to kind of change the dynamic completely, right? The powers that be that these elites are relying on, like you say compliance and everybody that they think they want. Basically they've marginalized, maybe 1% of us that can see what's going on and the rest are compliant. And if we could just change that balance a little bit, right. So then it's what we call - is in there's a term for this. It's called a virtuous cycle. So if we could get that, nudge it to 5%, then you'll get some time in media, and then that gets more exposure, and then it kind of builds on itself like an avalanche and that avalanche is like a virtuous cycle. So we have to reach that tipping point. Yeah. So whenever we so far, we haven't quite got there. I mean, we haven't. Will Dove 58:17 But it's really important that you brought that up. And you're referring, of course, to the tipping point is, is I don't think Malcolm Gladwell came up with the concept, but he wrote a book called The Tipping Point. So if you want to understand it, go read Malcolm Gladwell's book "The Tipping Point". Because I believe you're right, it doesn't take, you know, a majority of the population, what it takes is a core group, large enough that we can start to influence the people around and then what happens is this sort of reverse psychology, yes, of this herd mentality, where you've got an injured woman, when he talks about the tipping point, he says, first of all, you've got 2% of the population who are innovators. These are the people who knew right from the start, this was all Bs, and we've been speaking out against ever since. And then you've got about 16% that are the early adopters. And I think that's where we are right now. We've got a lot of early adopters coming in saying, well, some of this doesn't make sense. And so they're starting to join us and they're starting to tell other people what this doesn't add up. And the real tipping point comes when you get the early majority, which I believe is something like 30% and now you've got the momentum and more and more because what you do is you've taken that herd mentality that the globalists are exploiting with their psychology, to have all these people go along and meekly follow the herd. Well, you reverse it on them. And now you've got that same herd joining us and saying, Well, I'm not going to comply with this anymore. And I think that's, that's where we end it. I agree. Mark Davidson 59:48 That's the positive outcome that we hope for, yeah, that's to say to people, you know, you and I can't do it for people. Ultimately, you have to do it. You have to think, be willing to think for yourself and not just reject everything out of hand. When you hear ideas, oh, you know, Experts disagree with the oil is nonsense all this disinformation they put in people's heads and ultimately you have that it starts with being willing to listen to the other point of view, right? Will Dove 1:00:18 And, folks, if you want to know how to talk to people who are on the fence, and actually get somewhere, go to www.StrongandFreeCanada.org. And look for the video, the interview with Vincent Gircys titled "How to Talk to the Other Side". Vincent was a police investigator for years and he has really learned how to talk to people who don't want to hear your message, and actually get them to accept it. So that's where you should start. Mark Davidson 1:00:44 Yeah, we're gonna have to fight this thing. I don't know if you've seen it, there's a lot of people who have been injured and angry at these people and saying, Well, you know, let them just suffer the consequences, you know, that's not going to help us either. You know, nobody does. Most people are just victims of this system of, you know, control that we're talking about, you know, the no more responsible their just -- Will Dove 1:01:09 -- you know, I agree. And I think that we have to make a distinction in our minds between those who are victims of this psychology are simply going along, because they they're not capable of doing anything else. And even very gentle with those people. And then there's the people who do know that there's something wrong, but they're not doing anything. Yeah. And I don't think we shouldn't be gentle with them. I think we should call them out on their cowardice and their BS and force them to make a decision. I agree. Yeah. And like, yeah, I couldn't agree more. All right, Mark, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on this. I genuinely hope that this discussion has helped to enlighten you on the psychology of this because understanding the psychology is extremely important. If you do not know the weapons that are being used against us. You are not armed to fight against them. Honestly, Mark, thank you. Mark Davidson 1:02:03 Okay, thank you take care. Will Dove 1:02:05 We are working hard to bring people the truth. And you can help just by sharing this interview on your own social media accounts. The more people who know the truth, the less power to sow fear and dissent the globalist will have. Please take just one minute to share this interview. If you don't have a social media channel or account to share it to, then please copy the URL above and send it to anyone you know, who might be receptive to this message. Fear is the only real weapon the globalists have. But the antidote to fear is not courage, but Truth. Because people fear what they don't understand. Please share this interview and help us to spread the Truth.