Hi everybody. I am Madison Holmes. I'm Maycee Holmes.   And you're watching Holmes Squared. And we're back for part two with our Irish Leprechaun. I mean, you can't... It's already... It already derailed.   British Leprechaun. The Irish people watching this, please comment in to say how offensive that is. It really is.   It is offensive. You don't even need to comment. I do need to... I'll make a disclaimer.   I have read How the Irish Saved the Civilisation, read by Liam Neeson himself. So I understand and I'm with you. Did you meant to say Liam Neeson? Liam Neeson.   You said Nielsen, so it's even worse. Liam Neeson. You can't even get the name right.   Oh my gosh. First you call a Brit Irish. Wait, that's a huge no-no.   A huge no-no to the Brits and a huge no-no to the Irish. An Irish man's last name. What's wrong with you? The British also got screwed over.   So this actually brings up a really interesting point that might actually... Look at the camera, not me. I'm coming out to the camera. It's fine.   This might help bring us to some of the topics of today. So my 22 times great granddad was a Reverend James Shaw, who was sent personally by King James I to Ireland to preach Protestantism at a time when it was a unified island. And then he was on the ships with all the other people that I can't remember off the top of my head who were in all the Irish history books.   And they caused civil unrest and civil war around religions. That was my 22 times great granddad. So even more offensive that you're referring to me as Irish.   Because in that book, the one thing that I found fascinating was the fact that, you know, there wasn't huge civilisations because after the dark ages, as they say, there wasn't much actual culture. There wasn't people thriving. And then, you know, it was the Irish that kind of helped settle in the Celts that revitalised things like literature back into the islands of the UK, which I found was really interesting.   But it's... On those island notes, I learned that from Cynthia. She was the one that said the Protestant being brought in, the Protestant Union specifically just for the division. Yeah, and that was my 22 times great granddad.   So you're very welcome. Thanks. But that kind of brings us up to the modern day because, well, things are kind of coming full circle and now the UK is getting a lot of its own problems, which maybe we can see that as a bit of karma for everything that they've done so far.   Actually, that's a good way of looking at it. Well, it's not all of, as EM would say, you know, there's a differentiation between the British oligarchy and then the British people. I think he refers to it as the English civilisation.   He's like they're not bad. They're just because the English civilisation also helps lead into the American civilisation. But the British, as people always, as the British Empire, that's what people associate with the big baddies.   But which brings us to what we wanted to talk about today, which is because the UK is usually always the guinea pig. It is the blueprint, the draft about what then comes to Canada. So we thought it'd be very prudent for him to educate us on what it actually starts to look like downstream.   We have talked about in a previous episode, BCIL 8, C8, 2, and 9, which got passed first, similarly. Did it get passed? Well, the UK already had their. Oh, in Canada? I don't know.   I was going to say it's on its way. No, I meant in the UK. I'm pretty sure it's not passed yet.   So just so we can see how things end up playing out, go downhill. Spoiler alert, it's not pretty. Yeah, I mean.   Okay, well then I guess we'll just hand it over to you, Tom. Yeah. You already said in our last episode you had a poem.   I have a poem. Because I am your lovely great British poet here. And we talked a lot in the last episode about poetry.   And we were going to talk about the UK. So let's do two birds with one stone to help transition us to that. So here's a little poem, allegorical in nature, that I wrote about one particular issue that's a hot topic in the UK.   And that will dovetail into some of the other areas that may be of interest to Canadians and beyond. So this is the Grendeloe. It goes like this.   No one knows from which waters they have swum through, nor in which they stay. They hide out in the river clay amongst the weed the green limbs splay. Of the lake they made a ghetto, where once bloomed flowers now hold muck that drains the soul of all its luck.   The brutish stench can only grow, for there's a creature down below they call the Grendeloe. A child who stumbled by the bank, ignorant of its ghoulish rank, experienced a morbid yank and murmured as his heart then sank. Long gone are the raven and crow.   The mother had lost her first born. She tried with might to sound the horn, the petrified town would not go. They dare not meet the Grendeloe that pulls them down below.   They cannot keep the youth away, for it's a curse that's come their way. They multiply with every day, their cancer is not kept at bay. Hamlets too become a ghetto.   They tried to pave over top floodplain, now claws lash out from down the drain. Their terror's now the status quo. They dare not meet the Grendeloe that pulls them down below.   Many instances have been since where mobs charged on to meet their prince in the hope that they could convince him to make the Grendeloe mince. They learnt something that brought more woe. The king, corrupted by his vice, had into castle moats enticed the Grendeloes with halls in tow.   He opened the dungeon to show the children down below. He said, you cannot have them back. They must go by a foreign track to our Lord Grendel, all in sack, for if he were to ever lack, he'd make our kingdom a ghetto.   He threatened that each mother's head would come off while they lay in bed with just one swift and mighty blow if the public ever should know the truth of Grendeloe's. Thus none know from which waters they have swum through, nor in which they stay. At night the maddened mothers pray the heaviness that's on the way will be relieved by some hero.   For men within their homes are weak and cowardly and he will turn their cheek, conditioned to not overthrow. They dare not meet the Grendeloe that pulls them down below. Ooh, that's good.   That's nice. It's not nice! No, it's not. It was well written though, Tom, it was good.   Thank you. Yeah, this piece was... I still am interested in more mythological themes and in fact one of the pieces we did at the Open Mic that I was grateful to be involved with with the both of you, I did one of those poems that weaves in some of those mythological themes and for me there's something quite important about continuing that tradition, especially the English tradition of Grendeloe's and in this case Lord Grendel being a link back to Beowulf and continuing a lot of those stories through and bringing in a modern influence and context. I also took some inspiration structurally from Tennyson's Lady of Shalott, which looks at a lot of Arthurian legend and weaving all that in because I think there is something really powerful about allegory and respecting that, certainly in the UK but it exists everywhere, that there is a culture and an ethos and a literature in this case that exists there that what's happening now is a continuation of that story and those patterns and themes that have been spoken about through time are so relevant in understanding today, which I can see both of you nodding and smiling along.   I know I'm in the right place for that. Well, that's why we're such movie buffs because, I mean, you'll get something like Lord of the Rings and it's actually a little bit sad. You know C.S. Lewis' work and C.S. Lewis was a best friend of J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis had, he started his space trilogy but the big finale, The Hideous Strength, he had originally written The Abolition of Man first and The Abolition of Man was on the lack of values and the decadence of society and the ever-evolving, getting rid of objection, objective truth for subjective truth, even though me and Maycee have expanded a bit more on that in previous episodes, but just the incoming of the transhuman agenda.   But nobody took it seriously. He wrote that for the scholars and the scholars were like, meh, just another dissertation. It's clear from that trilogy, which I've mentioned on Substack as well, and linked to Cynthia's essays on those, which are a really great breakdown.   Yeah, he absolutely saw it and he saw it in other bits of his work as well. His poetry is a really great example of a lot of that as well. What's it, Country of the Blind is a direct challenge to H.G. Wells, specifically on a lot of those same themes.   Lots of nature poetry as well and the detachment of people from the natural landscapes and the legends and the spirit that comes with that. With the hideous strength, what was also said, and which is interesting that you bring up the allegories, is that he thought, okay, if the scholars ignored my essay, Abolition of Man, maybe I can get it to the wider public and maybe I can do it in an allegory, this narrative form, that they'll understand this myth. I'll do that hideous strength.   He did it. And all of the fan emails were like, this is an amazing piece of work. They did not connect it in one piece to the actual reality of what was going on.   That's probably why the oligarchs loved doing fiction as well though. Even H.G. Wells, why do you have to counter him at all? Because he was also using fictitious writing to implement, I guess, sort of seeds into people's brains, bringing forth a certain normalcy that otherwise most human beings were not even conceiving at that time. Well, the trick is to say, oh, it's fiction.   It's just a thing for entertainment. Yeah. There's not meant to be lessons about life.   That are like, oh, it's meant to be a warning for today. And it's like, well, if you're looking at it as that, well, good for you because you're kind of going like, well, this is a terrible thing. We should not be doing this, right? But at that time, it wasn't served necessarily as a warning.   It was more like the predictive programming that we see a lot of today kind of weaving into the UK actually, Tom. So if you wanted to kind of elaborate now as to the poem itself and the relation to what's going on in the UK. Yeah.   So the real catalyst for this piece was the conversation that's happening in the UK around grooming gangs, which has become this big hot topic debate for those who aren't as initiated for many years in the UK, including around where I grew up. I grew up in Sheffield and Rotherham, which they're essentially the same town at this point because of the urban sprawl was one of the epicentres of this where there were young teenage girls targeted by grooming gangs of men. Statistically, they were predominantly Pakistani, but there are other non-English nationalities in there as well.   And that a lot of these young girls were targeted because they were white. And it was as many of the exposes and studies and enquiries showing that there was a massive cover up because the local councils and police forces were corrupt in covering it up for whatever reason. What I, however, wanted to take this piece is that there's sort of this, that whole thing has become a hot topic for what we'd call the right wing in the UK.   But there's also this lingering piece around grooming gangs amongst elite circles and politicians. That's an ongoing story. Prince Andrew is really the one that people like to focus on in the UK, Jimmy Savile with that.   And what's the nuance that's ignored in this story is that there's a connection between the two. The reason why these, I think Mujeeb Nawaz put this really well in his exploration of it, those street level grooming gangs who may target because of race or operate in a particular way or whatever, that feeds the higher up circles. There's a connection there.   And as I go into the notes on Substack for the poem, that's documented in both the major political parties, that there's a pipeline there between the connections between the street level grooming gangs and higher up for the elite child trafficking, both of which exist. And there's a reason why there's a connection there, and that's being completely ignored. And I suspect that some of that dialogue, at least in the political circles, is to try and say, well, ignore the fact that there's a connection here and it's not that simple, and they can use it to rile up people's sentiments to vote in certain ways or push other ideas and agendas tagged onto that.   Yeah, there's a lot of nuance there that gets ignored, particularly in this connection, and I wanted to write the poem to explore that. And the idea of Grindy Lowe's particular mythological creature of a child snatcher based in a lake seemed like a perfect fit. And then in my studies to try and work out more, there is this connection to Lord Grindel of Beowulf, which is one of the antagonists that Beowulf goes and defeats.   But it's similar settings, similar levels of evil. There's not much documented on it, but it has cropped up in literature here and there. So I thought, let's have some fun.   And it was the perfect allegory to use to highlight that connection. Have you done any connecting that too? Because, like you said, it's a hot topic for the right. And I've listened to, Majid Nawaz has also talked about it, but he's pointed out the connection with Stephen Yaxley-Lennon.   Yes, Tommy Robinson's stage name. Yeah, and that's what really sort of flagged my interest of, OK, there's a lot of nuance that's being ignored here, because the growing sentiment on the right is, oh, Tommy was right all along. He was the champion of these grooming gangs.   But then again, he was never focused on the elite child trafficking element of it, which we know exists. Right, and the Israeli connections. Yeah, there's massive Israeli connections.   He's really pushing Zionism as a part of his persona now. And like you said, if people don't bridge that, if they stay just with the grooming gangs, kind of like mobsters, I guess. You look at those gangs and then they look at them as separate entities than government entities or any corporations.   But they're literally just the same. It's just a trail. But they are connected, and I guess if people don't connect that, then they think Tommy Robinson, he's on the right line because he's calling out all of these grooming gangs, and yet you don't look at the government involvement within them.   Yeah. OK. And it's interesting because then it seems like it spreads more hatred.   Because it's funny because even what was going on and what has been going on with the whole Israel and Palestine thing and then different things that are happening and you're finding certain connections where it's like, oh, did Charlie Kirk get assassinated by Israeli foreign interests? And this is just something that's been going around as well. And it seems like there's a sort of huge divisionist flip going on where now it's like, oh, you can't be anti-Semitic and da-da-da-da on one side and on the other side. It's like Israel bad and da-da-da-da.   And like there's lots of nuances going on. And it feels to me almost very akin to the Ukraine-Russian war that's going on because it feels like there's a terror that's happening and I still feel like it's happening once again. And so that's where some of this connection comes in.   And there's a good part to also kind of come into it in the sense of like Crypto Rich has talked about it with the UK and the problem with immigration as well. Yeah. Well, the immigration and the grooming gangs all sort of clumps together saying this sense of Englishness is being attacked by those who've come from another country, from migrants.   And it's so that the whole grooming gang narrative is very easily attached to the migrant narrative there. And there is some connection there, but it's a very small part of the bigger picture. And that's why I spent a lot of time with the notes particularly that accompany this poem to say, yes, this grooming gang scandal exists and it's just one small part of a much bigger picture that's going on here that's not being talked about.   Yeah, you wrote it well. I'll just read it for those who are just listening. He wrote, I wonder if we're witnessing a sort of controlled demolition around this narrative where an attack on the street level gangs are used to say, we won, and hide the fact that the rot goes all the way to the top.   When certain crusaders, and I love that metaphor, against the street level grooming gangs are known to have strong ties with the IDF, that's Israeli Defence Force. I can only suspect that the relentless focus on the Islamic nationalities of some of the grooming gangs is to deliberately make people think that that's all there is to the story and prevent people from making the link to higher up the chain and more broadly as well as provide a convenient reason to continue riling up sentiments against Palestinians. And then he attaches some really good, Vanessa Beely is an amazing researcher.   So he's got, I'll have the link, Maycee will have the link. Yeah, tracking power. That's really interesting because David Miller, who writes that is in a court tribunal at the moment because he was fired, well, his university tried to fire him for calling out how a lot of universities and institutions are funding Zionist entities and contributing to the genocide that's happening in Gaza.   And he was fired from his university and he's now taking that to court. I don't know where he's at on that. He's onto something there, clearly.   So reading that correctly, I just wanted to make sure you're kind of feeling that the people that are, I guess, sort of against these grooming gangs and such are kind of placing it and like putting it more towards like look at the Palestinians in the sense of their involvement in it and look away from things like Israel. Yeah, but not necessarily Palestinians directly, but it's used as a very anti-Muslim attack and then Palestinians get lumped into that as well. Never mind there's Christian Palestinians who are getting slaughtered as well.   Right. Yeah, it's this engineering of the narrative to continue this constant fighting between traditional left and right and it's perhaps easy to do that because of the destruction of local community that's happened in the UK, in England. It's very easy to rile up people's sentiments who don't recognise the towns they live in anymore because migration has been an issue there because of the deliberately destructive economic policies that have been put in place that have hollowed out towns of local businesses.   It's a tapestry of all these things that is confusing and encourages a lot of fear. So the moment there's a crusader or a hero who comes along to say, here is the problem, here is the solution, follow me as I do it. It's very easy for people to get touched.   I love how you use the word crusader because that's something that I think that you can call it right-wing and for the purposes of this it makes sense to call it that but for right-wing politics and for those that I would consider themselves as such and maybe even centrist but perhaps maybe you might be more right towards certain topics, more centrist towards other ones and more even left towards different ones. It's something that Mae and Maddy have talked about a lot is the fact that we are hoping that the crusader mentality doesn't come through on the opposite end of the pendulum swing because that is I think how the whole point of this top-down system that you were alluding to, these top players, they love to swing the pendulum the other way. And it keeps that state of confusion as well.   There isn't a grounding and a permanence there. Yeah, and then it just leads to more death and we already know that, what is it? I think it's Colonel Tanner Watkins. I love her.   She calls it like the, what is it? The international... Syndicate? Syndicate, yeah. And basically just a military freaking complex. It's an imperialist mafia.   It's an imperialist mafia, yeah. It's a big club and you ain't in it. But you fuel it.   Yes. It's harder because talking about fuelling it, it's definitely harder to pull things like funds out because of just how intertwined funds are. But it's much easier to not fuel it by getting educated because again, even what we alluded to at the beginning, doing stories and even what C.S. Lewis, J.R. Tolkien tried to do via their stories, also pointing out the ring layers of power, that's the same structure that we have in real life.   It's not enough if people just look at it as this cool archetype. People actually still have to do the research, like what I love Tom did in his, he wrote the poem and then I competed research to expand upon the context. It's like you get the best of both worlds.   Yeah, and as well as something I'm thinking about more and more with all the poetry I write is there's going to be a time where the story and the narrative and the pattern that conveys in the poem may be useful for a completely different context or a completely different issue. True. I'm thinking about that more and more because I originally, on my sub stack, there's also a poem and a piece I did about digital ID, which is something else that's coming into the UK.   And originally it was really on the nose, really blunt about specifically to do with this is digital ID. And the tagline say no and smile still came into that. And afterwards I thought, well, how the actual particulars of how this situation is going to look, maybe even around the issue of identification by the state may morph and change and certain particulars may not be relevant in the future.   So going more with an allegorical nature or looking at the patterns of what's emerging here and commenting on that ended up feeding into what became the final draft, which was a little more general but still very much in line with how I feel about the piece and that I think will be more useful for times ahead of us when the particulars may change. It's also interesting how, like I like how you're trying to, it's kind of reminding me of the saying of like fighting fire with fire. But it feels that way in the sense where you're taking something that what we would call the oligarchs and the higher ups have learned how to take, which is kind of like, it's like that stupid saying, which it's not entirely stupid, but it's like no one cares how much you know until they know how much you care.   And that's where I feel like the fiction and the poetry and the allegories that kind of come in and how it can be used as a tool in either direction. In the sense where on the oligarch side, they're like, okay, we know that human beings are very feely creatures. And so when you come out with these narratives that kind of get our right hemispheric and emotional and also like empathetic selves doing fellow feeling, not fellow knowing, fellow feeling, then what you have is us trying to like, oh, infer what it is that we feel it's talking about and then where it is that it resonates with us and all of these things.   And it is something that's quite beautiful about human beings in the sense where even Lord of the Rings, it's like, why is that something that's a story that so many people can, I guess, sort of get on board with and really resonate with? It's because it's a journey. And when the minute that people feel like they are being taken on a sort of journey together as one, as a group, as a fellowship, for instance, right, it instantly activates something in our right hemispheres. And that's why the oligarchs, I think they know this.   Oh, they absolutely know. They absolutely, they manipulate it. It goes back to the grooming gangs and the right wing sentiment.   That's the, they create a story and a narrative there for people to latch onto with what they know is a very emotionally touching subject for them. It's okay, oh yeah, the story is our Englishness has been destroyed purely because of this mass migration from Islamic countries. That's, yeah.   They absolutely, they are masters of creating narratives. Yeah. They are.   And it's sad because like you can, it's almost like the devil's in the details, right? But it's funny because it's almost like they don't, like when you're using things like fiction writing or poetry, they're actually like there's details, but it's also very open. Like there's a lot of interpretation that can go into that. And that's why it's kind of funny because it's like you can get people hooked on details in terms of what's going on, right? But also details provide nuance.   And so that's actually the funny thing about even learning the stuff about like the right and the left hemisphere. And it's like the left hemisphere is one that likes to get caught on like bits and all that fun jazz, right? But at the same time, there are moments where it's like the point of like the whole is the point in the sense where it's like getting caught or going towards a specific point nuance is still very, very important for the overall whole. Otherwise you do fall into the trap of the narrative that is not, I guess it doesn't have actually the necessary context, which you could call details, but it doesn't have the necessary context of everything that's surrounding it.   It's a dynamic dance between the two. It takes two to tango. Well, yeah, because then you get the results of all the, they call it gatekeeping cultures, you know, whether it's a band or it's a movie, you get this franchise.   And then there's kids our age or older, sometimes 40 year old men that are probably 13 mentally. And they know they could probably speak Elvish to you, but they know anything that's going on in the world. So they really got good.   They deep dived into the franchise, but they didn't get because they got so focused on the little minute details. They missed the narrative. They missed the whole point of the myth, which was what's the, how it translates and then looking at the bigger picture.   So that's a good point. And Tom, do you want to read the St. Yeah, that can, cause that can bring in another element and there is a link actually between these two stories and we can explore that a little bit as well. Okay.   So when a delight dressed demons, cold calling to say that slavery is freedom. Don't fear, say no and smile and watch for his squirming. If he claims that the benefits are clear for selling your soul to stay safe from harm, say no and smile to this rash racketeer.   If he tries to double down in alarm, that convenience will not buy you out, say no and smile. So you defuse his charm. Should he implode with some red raging shouts with threats of ruining your livelihood, say no and smile.   You have no need to doubt. And as more and more realise they should not capitulate to devil demands, say no and smile. Just like you always could.   When he denies he was out to cause fright, whaling and whining for just one more chance, say no and smile and then model what is right. That was good. And it's interesting now.   I mean that that poem could have applied to the covert tyranny that we experienced, you know, lock yourselves down in your home for this totally deadly and killer virus. And you can't see any of your family or do things that we actually know to be objectively healthy because that's going to kill granny. And then, Oh, you've all got to inject yourself with this experimental pharmaceutical product because otherwise you're a monster.   Yeah. Well, yeah. And you'll kill granny.   Did I mention that you're going to kill granny and no one, no one kills granny. You don't kill granny. Um, but it's, yeah.   And it's, it's the same pattern that's showing up in the whole digital ID debate, which is really interesting because on the conventional, right. Um, well, even in Starmer's government, which is just tyrannical at this point, I don't think left and right. Their pushes, digital ID is the solution to the migration problem.   Yeah. And then you've got the, this, this other right faction, um, saying, Oh no, digital ID is, you know, not the answer to this, but then there might be some other ID card scheme or something like that. And they it's, it's clear that they want digital ID in some form anyways.   And it's interesting that now all those formerly former like free speech crusaders who came up through the establishment, right. They're now saying, Oh, we need to send to what's online if they're, you know, supporting Palestinians. It's just, yeah, completely on its head.   And when, for example, Palantir could come out and say, Oh, we're not going to create a digital ID for you, uh, Starmer for this scheme, because it's not what the people elected. It's a, it's a complete smoke and mirrors diffusion because they've still got access to all of patient data through a massive NHS contract, um, in the, for all the hospitals in the UK. Um, and they're very much, I don't think it's a surprise that they're very much banking on Faraj, um, Nigel Farage to get in and be the next prime minister to bring it in other ways through the back door.   And even that whole debate around the ID cards, which has captivated so much of the UK media is that in itself is a smoke screen as well, because through the back door we have what's called this, um, gov.uk one login coming in, um, that's been pushed and worked and being teased out in different points. Anyways, that nowhere in the media is it being spoken about, um, already, uh, this came in the other day that all company directors for any business have to be signed up to this one login scheme. Um, you now have to use it in order to renew your driving licence.   Um, and they've already said in what's now quite a hard to find interview, um, where Starmer's talked to actually spoke about the one login scheme. He was like, Oh yeah, we can, we can link this to, um, benefit payments or work employment or to your, and to your bank account. Um, it's out in the open.   And whereas, so it is a smoke and mirrors thing to say, Oh, we might have the, you know, Farage might get in it and it might seem as it's, there's this victory. We're not getting this digital ID totalitarian, but it's, it's already here and has come in the back door while you weren't looking for another way. And that's, that's a lot of how this system operates.   Yep. Well, they're doing the same thing in Alberta. This is why having you on is good.   You know, some people, I actually don't know. I wouldn't know. You get only the audience could tell whether or not, yes, I'm hitting the mic.   It happens. Mark spark. You may comment now.   Oh, Mark's going to be so happy to see me on it. He loves, he loves my poems. I love any comments on there.   So it's seeing us all together. Mark, I already know you're typing, you were typing comments. Even, even, even before you, you heard me say the section, you were writing a comment.   I know you are. Yeah. It's going to be like, yeah, he's going to write his own little poem.   Yes, he will. He will. Absolutely.   Um, but Alberta is doing the same thing. Um, and there's connections like watching what you guys go through. Even Daniel Smith, people are upset about the digital ID thing that's still being implemented.   It's cause there's also, she also really, yeah, it was like the idea of, uh, I think an announcement came out where they were wanting to do like a health wallet. And what it is, it's like, you know how you have like a health card, right? And you have to go up and you like hand it over and blah, blah, It was basically like under the guise of convenience where it's just like, yeah, you won't need to like pull out your card if you can't find it. And that's why I spoke about convenience in the poem to speak exactly to that.   Yeah. And so, and like, I mean, that's why it's so hard cause they are trying to put it as like a, it is a convenient thing. And there might be some people.   But they're the one who made it inconvenient in the first place. That is very true. That's, that's, that is some Hegelian dialect.   Yeah. The health systems are so poor and, but why? And you know, you look at places like China and stuff like that, even look at their banking structures. Cause we got so much money laundering here in Canada and, but they have, they have different banks for each industry.   So they have a specific bank, even for health. And then they have a bank for energy so they can. Yeah.   So do you have their industrial bank for like actual industry roads or bridges and stuff? Yeah. Infrastructure. Sorry.   That's, that's based off of, you know, the American system, Lincoln economics, because it's not actually centralised. And you, if you were to implement, cause right now what I know Daniel Smith is trying to do because she believes in the AI thing and she wants to streamline a lot of the problems that are going on. You cut the red tape, you bring in more technology.   It's the same arguments happening in the UK. And I'm not, I'm just, there's so much talk again, establishment right in the UK talking about, Oh, we need to cut down the civil service and government. And right.   Trump already showed what the template is. It's, it's replaced them all with AI. Yeah.   And when you, when you look at. Which is funded by Palantir and the other big tech companies who are. Yeah.   It's not, it's not exactly a solution. Yeah. There's, there's different ways to, and may, I think maybe what Maycee said is like the biggest, they made the problem in the first place.   They've their mismanagement, their money laundering and all of these schemes going on is what's made it difficult in the first place. Well, yeah. And then it's just, again, like Tom bringing up Palantir is such a good point.   And that's why even people like Courtney Turner, they, she go in Patrick, would they go down the technocracy link? Cause it's like, who are the people that are going to be managing these databases? Like that is it's a, I don't know if anybody has seen this stupid movie, but it was called the circle. And I think it had Watson. I feel like I have Tom Hanks.   Yeah. And literally it was funny cause it was like a sort of surveillance type of experiment that was going on. I think that there may, they probably were like basing this movie off of probably Google to be completely honest.   And maybe even Apple actually, cause even our RFK Jr with his whole, uh, like, or JF, RFK Jr. Yeah. With his wearable watches and like everything, everybody needs to be wearing, um, wearables now and all that. But yeah, this film is just, they have an entire like basement of databases and computers, like cataloguing all of this data.   Right. But it's just like, that's going to be like a huge currency. Like you want to talk about central intelligence agency, like in like.   Same in the UK. There's also all the guys, let's boost innovation in the UK. If you have a look, it's literally, yeah, we're going to buy up all the farmer's fields and whack massive data centres on them.   Right. Oh my gosh. That's not innovation.   You want to see real innovation. Look at China. No joke.   Gosh. Granted. Granted.   That's with good leadership though. The minute that she gets out, they tension mode of attention. It could still flip them on their head.   All the infrastructures in place. The same goes for, um, Russia from people I know who live there. It's like, Oh yeah, it's, you know, it's fine and it's great.   And it feels very free to be in Russia now, but you only need a different president or leader at the top or different influence. Flip the switch like that. They say Moscow will be a 15 minute city overnight.   Yeah. And that's, that's literally with every country. That's, that's why motive attention is so important because, and being involved, it literally never ends because you have to keep hold leaders accountable to the day they die and the day you die.   So that's, that's, that's probably one of the hit home. Or the strategy I like is just make them completely obsolete. Have a community that's strong enough to say, well, no matter who comes in and, you know, tries to influence us, we're just going to say, no, that's the story of, where is it in Mexico, Michigan near there about the town where they had loads of illegal logging and forestry and all the politicians were corrupt.   And they were realising that, well, hang on. It's a, it's us inviting the politicians in and then, you know, putting them up as the, as the leaders. It's what's causing this problem and is extracting all the wealth from our town.   So they all got together. They got guns together. Quite a big piece of the story is they know we're kicking out everyone who's all the corrupt cartels, all the corrupt politicians, all the corrupt government officials.   And we're just going to run things our way. There was a standoff for a while. It made the news and everything.   And eventually the best kids of government said, oh, okay, we give up. We're just going to leave you alone and let you run your own affairs and do your own thing. And that's still pretty much the case today.   And they, you know, they don't have any problems that they just cover themselves. Even when Mexico could try and put in whatever mandates around COVID or whatever policies there is the town, just say, no, we're not doing it and continue living their lives as is. You need an educated populace in order to do that on a, on the mass scale.   Cause you can, we we've met smaller communities. We're in smaller communities where those are possibilities, but you need in order to maintain a country. And that's the only thing that's nice.   That's why I'm a fan of decentralisation and distribution. I mean, the Hanseatic league is a great example of that of more city state based models that throughout Europe that could govern their own policy. Why I love initiatives like Albertan independence and Texas independence is because it brings that accountability way closer to the people who actually matters.   Granted, I was talking about this and I forgot what it was. I forgot what the plan was called, but it was a me now. Well, I mean, it's, it's similar concepts sort of, but it was a, a sort of, I guess plan slash plot in the sense where it's like trying to wipe out the U S is port States, Texas being an example, because then you can, what you can do is you've gotten encirclement and you can tackle in the middle.   And that was something that in the middle are actually more like, I guess what you would call home of the mega movement and stuff like that, or sorry, is it mega? Yeah, I think it is make America great. Yeah. Yeah.   And then also the kind of like red States. And so that's why I was talking with dad and I was just like, well, what, where does Texas stand right now? And he was like, honestly, purple. Like, and that's why it's a little bit like, if you not in the sense where I don't, I'm not in favour of Texas wanting to gain their own sovereignty, but just, it's the same thing that even Alberta and Albertans need to be thinking about as well.   And I think a lot of us have been trying to, because I know that the minute that the independence movement kind of came on the line, I was like, how are we getting manipulated? Right? Like if we, if we want independence and we get it, who the, who the fuck wins that we really don't want to win from that. Right. And because a lot of Albertans will win.   Sure. Because of all of the nice conveniences that will arise. Right.   But I'm like, but this, if this game has been played before, are we getting pawned? Right. And so far the only evidence that I could find from that, and like, that'd be the same thing with the, the Texas movement as well. Then they have to ask themselves, how would that be used in some sort of greater scheme against the United States in general? Because we already know that the U S has been infiltrated by great, like the British empire, quote unquote, for like a long time.   Well, it's not even that it's infiltrated. It just is. It just is right now.   Yeah. Anglo American empire. Yeah, exactly.   And the only thing that I can think of in terms of Alberta is the sense where if we, I don't know, become independent, that's lovely because of what Tom was even talking about with the guns and such is like now we can take things a bit more into our own hands. And like, I just think the pros still outweigh the cons in my opinion, but it doesn't mean that if we're not savvy to, I guess, sort of even the larger scheme surrounding us and the partnership and the deals that we ended up making right. And with whom it's like, let's face it.   The anti China PSYOP in Alberta is still quite large. So even independent or not, we already would be rejecting the wrong, the wrong partners to be rejecting. Right.   In terms of what deals we're going to be making. And then we have to understand like whose hands are, are we going to be shaking at the end of this process? Right. And then it's no, it's no different than any concept of whether or not you want to be a sort of like the game B project is basically, I always refer to the idea of the divergent films and what the game B project was and what Courtney Turner has been kind of looking into.   And even some of Brett Weinstein's affiliations with it, although I'm not quite sure yet, but it's just little tiny sex. Right. And then you're like, Oh look, you can be your own little independent entity over there.   And then you're your own independent entity of there. And, and you're all kind of broken off into this sort of network nexus. Right.   And I think that if you, even if you want that, or you wanted something that's similar to what was originally the United States and what they were going for, which was the idea of the, a United nation. Right. But under your individual states, right.   The concepts are not too far off. If you're really thinking about how you can still get manipulated and how we are all in all kind of trying to encompass as if you're not educated. Right.   Because left hemisphere, if you're, if you're a bunch of little nexuses and you're, there's still not a quite a way to stay underlyingly connected. Right. Then you're still at risk.   You're still isolated. You're still at risk of getting fucked essentially. Right.   Because now you have less, you have less, I guess resources. Cause I mean, I know a lot of people don't like referring to people as resources, but it's like, we are very helpful for each other. Right.   The flip side of the whole thing is that with those smaller entities, they're in much stronger positions to then be able to negotiate directly with their neighbours for resource sharing, rather than that being managed by some super great overarching entity, which doesn't really have any connection with the resources in that area whatsoever. This is a big part of how the Soviet union fell is a lot of the, especially in the, the Western part of the union where we find Poland, Czech Republic, all of these now is that it got to the point in the eighties where these local towns were really just managing themselves and working out between their neighbouring towns. How, you know how best to share resources and get food.   And for example, if someone in the town was, you know, arrested for committing a thought crime against the state or whatever it was, the entire apparatus of that town and most likely in the neighbouring towns as well, we're just all mob. And by sheer people power, they would just break into those prisons and retrieve their people. And it was at a point where the Soviet union was so weak that they couldn't really do anything about it.   And, and that's only possible because those communities had their, had their individual agency there, that ability to govern their own affairs, even when there was this overarching tyrannical system. And so of course the time comes when the Soviet union falls, those communities still exist and can continue going regardless of what the, the country apparatus around it is doing. Yeah.   There's some of them arguably could still be in better positions. Oh yeah. But it's a, it's still a, it's a progress and it's contextual based on different locations.   It's definitely contextual because it's, that's I remember, and it was a stupid game that we played capture the flag. I remember one time and they put us into teams and we all had to be kind of like, I guess against each other. Right.   But if you wanted to take more metaphorical twists as to how this kind of relates to this discussion, you could have thought the flag was prosperity. You could have thought the flag was like a, I guess them trying to thrive and that's what you're trying to capture. And the most genius thing obviously that happened was three of the teams out of the four all teamed up together.   And then they decided to attack the one team that didn't think about it. Right. To join forces.   And then it kind of happened again and it was two V two. It was like, okay, like I was on red team for example. And then I was like, we were looking at green team instantly going like, we don't want that to happen again.   So now it's, you have two big conglomerates, right. Going after the same thing. And it's not necessarily that it's like a, the mindset, because again, this is very left hemispheric in the sense of the competition.   Zero sum. Yeah. Right.   Where it's like, Oh, we have to like, I get either I get prosperity or, or you don't. Right. Or my people get it and yours don't.   Right. And that's where a lot of Matthew's work kind of comes in. Cause like, why can't we just cooperate? Right.   Like, why couldn't we all just be friends? And so that's why it's, it's very difficult. Cause you can't, you can't get rid of left hemisphere. Right.   And then whether you have, that's why what we alluded to systems, anarchy, monarchs. And this is something I've also been thinking about with Ian Burlingame, cause he talks about real monarchies and he says, we've never had a real monarchy cause the way it's supposed to play out, never actually happened. And that just sounds like to me when people are like, Oh, but we haven't really seen real communism, right? Like if we just try it one more time, it's going to work this time.   And this is why I don't think the system matters, but it's like you got the top down, you got the bottom up because the brain is the brain and all of those systems are made of people, human beings. So unless you know your own mode of attention, meaning you also know the motive intentions of others, no matter the system, because systems as Tom, you kind of alluded to, we'll also, you will probably get a democracy might work for one country or one nation, but maybe the monarch is what everybody understands a bit better on a smaller level in another country. But it doesn't matter so long as you know the brain and like anarchy on some levels might work with no government systems, but cooperation is the ultimate way for everybody to prosper because we're better together.   We're like period. And to do that, everybody needs to get educated on their own brain and psychology. That way we can avoid the divide and conquer games, you know, digital ideas without the right mode of attentions.   Like all of this needs to be factored in. Oh yeah. And like we were talking about, I think even on the last one it was like you can have elements like systems transition.   Yes. They're like, they're a living thing because people are living thing. It's constantly a process of transition because context and people and situations and resources, it all changed.   We transitioned into a tyranny. We weren't always meant like that way. Were we meant to end up with tyranny? Actually, yes, Canada, if you check out Matthew, where it's where, yeah, we actually were meant to be exactly where we are, but not the point.   So was the US. And so it was the US, right? I suspect for a while, the UK now, and I suspect a lot of those are like, well, I know people like Francis Leder talk a lot about this, that they are preparing. They know that transfer of wealth is going to the Eastern states.   Yes. Their plan will just be to bring themselves out. They're doing a lot of work in Central Asia at the moment, which is really interesting, building massive mega cities and all sorts, which, yeah, it's the, yeah, controlled extraction, move on extraction, move on extraction.   Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I think even Ian Burlingame was talking about with Israel.   And I think it was Kissinger that was laughing, going like, haha, in a couple of years, I won't be in Israel. And everybody didn't get the joke, but the funny, the joke is that they made Israel to basically just farm Israel. And now there will be no Israel.   It might have been Schwab that said that. Yeah, maybe. Yeah.   I don't know if there's, I mean, big doomsday. Woo. UK is calling.   Oh, we've been talking for 51 minutes and we did cover a lot. Um, is there, I will, again, once I want everybody to know where they can find Mr. Tom Shaw's sub stack. Tomshawwritings.substack.com. It's also linked at tom-shaw.uk. Yes.   Yes. Cause you can buy his books there. Um, you can follow his writings.   It's all there. It's all there. Um, shall I do a poem on cooperation to close with? Sure.   Yeah, let's end on a nice note. Sure. Maybe a bit more of a situation.   Which one is it? Well, this is, um, battle or build. This is the one I did at the end of yesterday. You're like, you needed to open with that one.   Um, it feels fitting to, to close with because it's, I love how your picture is Mjolnir, like Thor's hammer. Is it going on? Um, yeah, this is one of, one of my earliest poems and exactly of this idea of why are we in these divide and conquer games we can collaborate. And I don't think it's any coincidence that this is far and away the most popular piece that has ever been put out on my sub stack.   I know Tess Laurie of the world counts for health. That makes me feel very happy. Yay.   Yeah. So there's, there's something here that resonates. And if you're watching, I invite you to leave a comment to say if it resonates with you as well.   So battle or build, it goes like this. Are you here to wage a battle or are you here to help me build? Did you bring your sharpest weapons or tools to forge and gold to guild? Did you come to compete with me or did you come to collaborate? For I do not want to fight against you. Instead, unite as we head to our fate.   See, there are bigger threats in life than my character assassinating yours. Food is poison. Medicine is death.   Neighbours are strangers and work is chores. Nature is withered. Living is robotic.   The news is lying and the lies are truth. Right now, all's the wrong way round. So what use is giving me a missing tooth? I'm not here to wage a battle.   I'm here to help you build. I choose to put my axe to wood and hoe to earth so fields are tilled. I plant my seeds with ample space and feed them water, not the blood of all the foes I wish to slay who could have been my closest bud.   Then I watch the flowers bloom, flourish into being their own. I make the space I want to inhabit and somewhere you can say you've known. So are you here to wage a battle or are you here to help me build? Ooh.   Ooh. Ooh. I really like that one.   I really, really like that one. That's a good one. It is a good one.   I feel like that's a good note to end off with. Absolutely. Do you want to join us, Tom, for outro? Yeah, what do I need to do? I've done this once and I can't remember already.   We say, This has been Home Squared. That's literally it. Alright.   Okay, ready? One, two, three. This has been Home Squared!