Will Dove  00:00 People who have good information make good decisions. People who have bad information make bad decisions. This is why independent journalism today is so vitally important.   Will Dove  00:14 We are in a war. An information war. On one side are those who wish to control your perceptions, to create an illusory world in which a false but carefully constructed view of reality will lead people to follow a narrative which benefits those who constructed it. On the other, are those who are telling the truth, knowing that, while at times the truth may be hard to hear, it is only by knowing the truth that you can make good decisions.   Will Dove  00:47 And while many of us today in independent media have no past experience as journalists, there are some who used to work for mainstream media, in many cases before the media became a controlled propaganda machine, and who are dismayed and disgusted with the state of mainstream journalism today, and are bringing their extensive experience to this information war.   Will Dove  01:11 Two of these are Randy Taylor and Rodney Palmer. Randy has decades of experience in talk radio, while Rodney worked as an investigative journalist and foreign correspondent for CBC and CTV for over 20 years.   Will Dove  01:28 Together they are launching TalkNation.ca, a live streaming service where they will join the fight to bring Canadians the truth, and hopefully, inspire action on the part of their listeners. As both Randy and Rodney will attest from their many years of experience in journalism, the truth is useless if it does not result in action.   Will Dove  02:00 Randy, Rodney, welcome to the show.   Rodney Palmer  02:03 Thank you, Will.   Randy Taylor  02:04 Great to be here. Thanks for the invite.   Will Dove  02:06 And we're here today to talk about Talk Nation Radio, and perhaps a few other things. But before we get into that, I know that both of you have a long history in media, something that a lot of people don't know, that this isn't some, you're not just a couple of guys who came up with some idea out of the blue. You know how to do this. You've got a ton of experience.   Will Dove  02:26 And I know it's never comfortable talking about yourself. But I'm going to ask you two, I'm going to ask you to give a little bit of background in both of yourselves in the history that you've got. Rodney, you, I know – so, I'm going to go with a known factor first, if you wouldn't mind telling your viewers what is your background in media and broadcasting.   Rodney Palmer  02:41 I spent 20 years as a news reporter, an executive producer, investigative reporter primarily at CBC radio and television and CTV News. In early part of my career, I was a writer at the Globe and Mail in Vancouver Sun and a freelancer with a number of other papers, Toronto Star, Montreal Gazette. So, I spent two decades immersed in Canada's media system as a news gatherer and a writer and a broadcaster.   Rodney Palmer  03:09 I ended that about 20 years ago, when my family got very ill, while working as a foreign correspondent, I was a foreign correspondent for CTV News for many years. And they don't send you to the Bahamas, Will, they send you to the stinkiest damn polluted countries you could go to and it was a little too much for my family, and I had to stop and move back to Canada for some clean air water and easier living, and take a break from that. And I got into an alternative health business that I designed, and started marketing it to medical doctors. And that took off and to me that was just as interesting as journalism. So, I've been doing that for 20 years.   Rodney Palmer  03:51 And in the last four years, I noticed at the time when candidate needed journalism most, the journalists abandoned their post and started repeating government public health messaging when so many learned scientists, doctors, health professionals, were screaming the red flags at us. And instead of just ignoring them, they shamed them, blamed them, bullied them, called them names. I've never seen anything like it. And I realized that journalism had been hijacked.   Rodney Palmer  04:24 So, I started speaking out, I did a testimony at the National citizens inquiry that got a huge number of views worldwide, millions, because I did like sort of an investigative analysis into the CDC’s behavior during the time of COVID, transitioning from a news gathering organization to a propaganda organization. And I put up the definitions of them, I gave multiple examples. It was a pretty rock-solid case.   Rodney Palmer  04:48 And since then, people want me to come and talk about it more and more and more and I didn't really have time to do it. This is where I met you a year ago at a big conference in Victoria. I flew all the way out to the farthest city West of me as I could get, and participated in this very important conference to unify Canadians. That was the concept of it. And more and more I keep getting asked, “Are you going to come back to journalism?” Well, journalism is dead.   Rodney Palmer  05:14 And then I got interviewed by a guy named Randy Taylor, on Mississauga, Ontario suburb of Toronto radio station one day, and Randy was doing something bloody miraculous. He was doing traffic and weather and how to get to work. And by the way, I'm going to interview Rodney Palmer about how the CDC has gone to hell in a handcart. On the next day, it was traffic and weather. Now I got Robert Malone, the inventor of the mRNA technology, and people listen to that like never before. And then I just thought, well, why don't we take Randy Taylor and put him on the internet with a radio show and let him talk to all of Canada. So that's where we are today. That's the quick summary of my experience in journalism.   Will Dove  05:57 Alright, Randy, I think that's your cue.   Randy Taylor  05:59 Yeah, pretty much a story told, it's interesting. I didn't know that we had a, you know, a 20-year expiry date, but me too. I was, yeah, I was in broadcasting, in radio for 20 years, ended up finishing my career off in Newstalk, it's CFRB 1010 in Toronto. That went and spent a year hosting a program on global television. Then, started a started a business in personal and professional development called “Taylormade Leadership”. I was fascinated with that entire aspect of human life, studied the science of human behavior, most of my life, and so I was excited to work in that in that field.   Randy Taylor  06:39 As a kid, I grew up on the streets at 14 years old. So, I had a story to tell and a career that I love. So, for the past 20 years, I've been doing that, speaking and training and writing and the rest of it, and it's just kind of a confluence of errors I got, don't ask me for a political opinion, because you had me at political opinion. So, I got asked to maybe do a commentary on this station in Mississauga political commentary. And I said, well, that's fine, I can do that. And I was more and more hearing all the horror stories of everything that was going on in Canada, and then very soon that led to, before I actually even started, it led to going on the morning show. That's where I met Rodney. He was there for 10 weeks.   Randy Taylor  07:27 And the reaction, because of the material that was being covered that you know, as Rodney is alluding too, that no one in the mainstream media was covering it. Ratings went up 500% in 10 weeks, and I tell people all the time, if you've been a broadcasting before, you know that if you go up 5%, you get a champagne. So, this was a remarkable indication of I think, what was possible and then Rodney and I met up again went for dinner and on a napkin over dinner and a beer, we started crafting this idea. And here we are. So, it's been taken national that launches 4pm on July the 1^st, Canada Day.   Will Dove  08:08 All right. Now, Rodney, you absolutely made reference to the capture of mainstream media, and we're going to get into that. But you guys are both seasoned journalists. So, I'm not going to worry about hurting your feelings with tough questions. I'm going to ask one. In the last four years, there's been a lot of us, independent journalists, come out of the woodwork, started telling people the truth. I’m one, there's many others. What's different about Talk Nation Radio?   Rodney Palmer  08:33 I can go first for a moment. I was just talking with Randy about this today because there seems to be a lot of buzz more than we expected about what we're doing. And I think it's probably because we're both trained professionals who left the business and it's easy to fall back into it. Whereas people who are coming out and being independent journalists like yourself, like - so many others, even Leighton Grey, even Jamie Salé and Theo Fleury, these are what I call instinctive journalists. These are people like when I worked in journalism, there was people who went to broadcasting school, people who maybe just got university degrees and trained at their student papers, and then people who just kind of got it, they were just instinctive question askers.   Rodney Palmer  09:12 So, you can be an instinctive journalist and be excellent at it. But we're both trained in our 10,000 hours, 100,000 hours of doing this job. So, there's a language that Randy and I have easily working together. When I went on the air with Randy Taylor the first time as a guest, I felt that I was on the air with the best broadcaster I'd ever been on the air with, period. There was a synergy between the two of us. He knew exactly when I was about to wrap up. He jumped in to go to the next break. He handled me perfectly on the air live.   Rodney Palmer  09:44 And journalistically speaking. You know, I worked at the top level, I was a CTV News foreign correspondent. I was a CBC investigative reporter. I was an executive producer. We know the field we know what we're doing. And Randy is so infectious to listen to. I had friends of mine tune in when I was on his show. Two weeks later, they're calling me say, “Hey, you know who we had on today?” I said, “I can't even get his station up here where I live.” And they said, “Well, I can't stop listening. It's locked on my dial. The guy's amazing!” And I think that's the difference is that there's the practice, with practice comes closer to perfection. And I think that maybe that's why Talk Nation Radio is going to be a little bit different. And I'll let Randy speak to the balance that we're trying to pull off as well.   Will Dove  10:33 Randy, please.   Randy Taylor  10:34 So, I think there's a couple of things at play here. One of them is, I mean, this is a business, it's a radio station. But this is a passion. I look at this, and when I was on the other station, I said many, many times, guys, if we don't stand up and do something right now, one day, our kids are going to look us in the eye and say, “Why didn't you do something?” So, I don't think you can fake passion.   Randy Taylor  11:01 And the reality of that, I mean, the passion that I have, and Rodney has, and everybody on our team has to really dig down and try and do something positive for the country is real, that's number one. Number two, if David Letterman walked into the room and told a joke, I guarantee you would laugh because it's Dave, right? It has nothing to do with whether the story initially is funny. And I think that, you know, potentially one of the reasons that we're getting attention is what Rodney said, we're veteran journalists, we've been at this a long time.   Randy Taylor  11:35 And so, there's an expectation that says, okay, well, you know, they're very seasoned, they know what they're doing, at least we'll give them a chance. And I think that plays into it a lot. And our hope, in doing this is there's so many great people like you, organizations across the country, that we're hoping to kind of band together with to elevate everyone's voice, make that so much more believable to Canadians from coast to coast to coast, to say, you have power, you can vote, and you need to, you got to get involved. So, I think it's a confluence of all of that. And people's disillusion with what I grew up with, and I'm sure all of us in the greatest country in the world. And we're losing that moniker. And that's terrifying.   Will Dove  12:29 It is indeed. Now, Rodney, you were talking about, when you were interviewed by Randy, how well he handled that interview. And, Randy, I want to get into that for a bit. Because yeah, as Rodney says, I'm one of those people who just sort of jumped into it, kind of, I did study journalism many, many years ago, when I was younger, I never acted as a journalist until the last few years, but I at least had some of that background. And it is a challenge, especially when you're acting as the host. Because as you know, you get this spectrum of guests from the people who give them a question, and they'll go for 15 minutes before they're wind down enough, take a breath where you might be able to insert a question. And then you have the other ones where they'll give you 30 seconds, and it's like pulling teeth to get information out of it. What have you learned in all of your years in journalism, in doing these interviews? I really want it, makes it so much better for the listening audience.   Randy Taylor  13:25 So much of it, I think, has to be intuitive, and then researched and practiced. So, the intuition in that is, rather than who, why, what, when, and where. If you begin to get your guests to start to tell stories, and you're a good listener - Arsenio Hall is one of the great examples of a failure in broadcasting. He had the world at his feet. But if you watched Arsenio on his show, he would have Tom Hanks on, and he would ask a question something about, what's going on with your movie. And Tom would say, oh, it was really great. But when I was on the set, and I was backing up, and one of the vehicles, we ran over and killed my grandmother. And Arsenio would just - and he would say, who else is in the movie. And I was like, he wasn't listening.   Randy Taylor  14:21 Do you know, Dr. Frasier Crane, Seattle, I'm listening. I think it's so important to hear the guest and then go with the story. I mean, if there's a great story somewhere in there unfolding, I think that that is something that you have to help to unpack for the listener, that and you know, station informatics, of how to get in and out, and how to throw to a break and do all those things you did 10,000 times and so, you sound like you know what you're doing because you do.   Will Dove  14:53 Right, and I would agree. It's very much about listening. And you also have to hone your memory skills, because if you get one of those people who wants to talk for 15 minutes, you're going to be able to remember, okay, they said this, this and this in those 15 minutes, I need to cycle back to that and ask them those questions. So, with that in mind, I'm going to take something you said, Randy, and I'm going to go back to Rodney. And because Randy made reference to telling stories, and Rodney, there’s no journalist I've ever met, for whom I have greater respect. You have gotten more about journalism than I will ever know. And you've spent many years as a foreign correspondent.   Will Dove  15:31 So, I'm going to ask you to tell the story that you think is most relevant to what we're talking about here today. And what we're talking about today is not just getting good information, but getting people to do something with that information, to get off their butts and go do something. Rodney?   Rodney Palmer  15:47 How do you - I want to make sure I'm following you, what's the story you're looking for?   Will Dove  15:52 Well, what I'm looking for, Rodney, you've got this wealth of experience in journalism overseas, in just about every area of the world you can imagine. And I'm sure that you've had, many things happen to you, and experiences that taught you lessons. And while part of what we're talking about here today was Talk Nation Radio, and what you gentlemen are doing isn't just disseminating information, but inspiring people to get off their butts and do something with that information. Go out and vote, whatever, do something. And I'm certain that you have got stories of things that you've seen, reported on, where things perhaps did not happen the way they should have or could have, because people didn't or conversely, because they did.   Rodney Palmer  16:41 Let me think of one I can tell you that I was working as an investigative reporter for CBC radio in the mid-1990s. And when you're the investigative reporter, you're kind of like an extra person in the newsroom. So, there was a shooting at a school in Toronto, very rare, not an American style shooting. This was an adult student who had gone in, he was angry with his guidance counselor, and he shot him.   Rodney Palmer  17:04 So, all hands-on deck, right? So, everybody from the CBC is down at this school. Palmer, what are you working on right now? Get down there. Everybody down there. So, I get down there. And I wasn't really a daily news reporter. I was an investigative reporter; I would spend weeks months on one single story.   Rodney Palmer  17:19 So, I got down there and I saw on the steps of the school, the principal standing at the top conducting a news conference with about 50 reporters, wonder there were 50 reporters in Toronto. Probably 10 of them were from the CBC. I could see CBC, three of my colleagues from radio, local radio, national radio, television, local television, national television, French. And I thought, what do they need me for? Right? This is well handled.   Rodney Palmer  17:45 So, I instinctively turn my back on it. I can't even tell you just how repulsed I was about the largest of this. But how it's completely unnecessary for yet another reporter to be there. We got it covered, right? There’re seven CBC microphones on this guy. And I turned and I just walked toward the shopping mall. There was a shopping mall nearby. And I saw a strange looking police car. And it didn't quite look like a police car. And then I went in the mall and I thought I got to find the bathroom. And I asked the guy who looked like the police officer, do you know where the bathroom - I figured the police were there just to secure the mall, right? Because of the shooting.   Rodney Palmer  18:21 And he said, “I have no idea.” I said, “Well, you work in this mall and you don't know where the bathroom is.” And he said no, “I don't work here. I'm part of a private security force. That police's this neighborhood on behalf of the mall.” I said, “What do you mean you police the neighborhood?” He says, “Well, we police neighborhoods. We're a private security force. We have a contract with the city of Toronto to police public housing.” And if you know Toronto, the main arteries of Sherbourne Street, Parliament Street, Jarvis Street downtown, have a number of very tall public housing, and they police these things.   Rodney Palmer  18:56 And I thought, so you're like a private police force in Toronto? Yeah. So here I'm thinking this is a way better story than what's going on in the steps over there. This little skirmish that ended in violence, and it's over, the story's done. So, I started talking to this guy, he agreed to let me interview him. I found out that he was in the process of trying to outbid the Ontario Provincial Police to contract as a civic police force in the smaller cities throughout rural Ontario like the one I live in.   Rodney Palmer  19:26 And I thought this is phenomenal. There's somebody who's actually got a plan. He's got staff, he's got cars, he took me in and he showed me his training videos where they weren't allowed to carry guns, but they could have these flashlights called Maglites, this long, and they have eight D-size batteries in them so they're solid metal. And he showed me a video of them clubbing a guy horribly, and they said they have a trick where they work through the trespass to Property Act, where they have a ticket that looks like a police ticket, but all it is a notification, you're on the property, you can't be here. They give it to the guy and if he doesn't leave, they start clubbing him. And he had video of it.   Rodney Palmer  20:01 And then he showed me the dog training area where he says, you know when we train our dogs, we fight with them with a with a rubber ring, and we never let them lose. So, our dogs don't understand the concept of losing. So, they will never unclench from your limb once they chew it. And I couldn't believe that this guy was telling me this story.   Rodney Palmer  20:18 So, I thought, would you like to tell the story to the CBC? And to my shock, he said, yes. And I think that was the end after that. It was just a matter of learning that there was a company that was about to take over policing. And if it could, because at the time, Will, there was a lot of tiny police forces all over Ontario, and the municipalities couldn't afford them. So, they were taking contracts from the Provincial Police, the OPP, we call it here, Ontario Provincial Police. And this guy was trying to outbid the OPP, and become a private police force. So, a story like that if I hadn't happened to have that instinct to walk away from that story that was over covered, walk in, have my radar on to find out that this guy was up to something that I thought people needed to know about.   Rodney Palmer  21:05 And if he hadn't had the mean, he was all business. So, he thought, no stories are bad story. Until people were shocked that this was happening in our province. So, if you're paying attention, which we tried to do at Talk Nation Radio, you can tell stories that others aren't covering. And we still call the mainstream media, the CBC, Global, CTV, they're not covering these stories, or if they are, they're only covering one side.   Rodney Palmer  21:33 So, the journalism we're going to bring to Randy is both sides of the story. So, if there's a story about the Canadian Armed Forces, we want to hear from the Canadian Armed Forces. If there's a story about forcing gender ideology on the kindergarten class, we want to hear from the school board, because they too are Canadians. You may disagree with what they're doing. But I want to hear why they think it's the right thing to do. And we bring that to Randy, he interviews both sides. And lo and behold, the listener gets to decide where they fall on, because we believe Canadians are smart enough to make up their own mind, and to form their own opinions.   Will Dove  22:11 Right. Now, before we go on, gentlemen, a simple question is called Talk Nation Radio, where you actually be on the radio?   Randy Taylor  22:20 Yes, in a sense. So, radio has shifted so much, you know, it went from all the decades of terrestrial radio stations, you would have your antenna or your stick and you would have a broadcast footprint that went in this area, and you would get a license and, you know, kiss the ring of the CRTC every 15 days and bring them nice bonbons. Those days are waning. You saw what happened with Bell Media, all the layoffs there. I think a lot of that was more managerial problems and over consulting that made a mess of it.   Randy Taylor  22:52 But the reality of radio today is that statistically, 70% of people still listen to radio, 80% of those people don't actually listen to the station, they're streaming it. So, if you're in Red Deer and you're listening to the station, you're probably listening to it on a streaming device, radio.net or radio.co, or any of these streaming services, iHeartRadio. So, 80% of radio is now streamed, which is what we are, we're going to be 100% streamed. So, we'll be available across the country, obviously.   Randy Taylor  23:28 But there's a great history in this country of radio. And so that was our primary concept, is that we would launch this to walk like and sound like and talk like a radio station from beginning to end. News at the top of the hour, radio station IDs produced, commercial stop, sets, guests, hosts, promos, everything that you would hear on any radio station. The only difference with us is that we don't have a terrestrial stick. And as of yet, we don't answer to the CRTC.   Will Dove  24:03 Alright, so now, Rodney had made reference to even doing debate. So, getting both sides on, which I think is fantastic. This is something I have tried to do without any luck, because I can't get the leftists or those who were behind the narrative to come on my show and debate with somebody who was on say, I will say, our side, my side of it, of the side of our personal rights and freedoms, of logic and science. What's your success rate been in the past? And how do you expect to be able to do in the future to bring those sorts of people in? Because if you can do it, Randy, I'll be one of your first listeners.   Randy Taylor  24:37 Well, I think so far, Rodney, we're doing okay. It's obviously a challenge to have people on but the more that they're going to hear, they're being silenced. And we will you know, as a broadcasting live, we'll call them out, and say we talked to the finance minister's office, they declined to have anyone come on, we talk to this person, from the School Board Association, they declined comment, make up your own mind of how you read into that. So, you know, eventually that pendulum will swing. And they'll need to take part more, I think.   Rodney Palmer  25:15 And also, Will, we have to understand that a finance ministers got other stuff to do than to be interviewed by us. So maybe then you can get a deputy, if you can't get a deputy, you can get an MP but the MPs are so silenced now by their totalitarian leaders on all parties, that they're unlikely to talk without permission. So, it's possible to then go to an economist, who is friendly to let's say, let's take this example, the finance minister, friendly to the views of the government of the day. Maybe even somebody who helped to advise them or draft them and get them on to explain what the heck's this crazy all about? You people believe in it, you're going to shove it down our throat with this taxation, or whatever it is. Explain it to us, please. We would like to know from your position.   Rodney Palmer  26:01 So, we may not get the exact person on. But we want to hear that point of view. Because Canadians need to be educated on the things they don't agree with. If you don't - how do you know you don't agree with it, if you don't understand it? We have to at least give them a chance. So, they are also Canadian. You know, liberals are also Canadian, even though they are the least popular Canadians in this moment of time in the history of politics in this country. But I think we are not on the side of freedom and rights; we are on the side of journalism.   Rodney Palmer  26:32 So, we'll talk to the person who says, this is trampling on my freedoms, this is trampling on my rights. Why do you think so? And then we'll talk to the person they say is trampling them, or someone who at least believes in the opposite side, and then we get the discourse, then we get the debate, then we get a fulsome understanding from which the listener can go away and make up their own mind.   Will Dove  26:54 All right, gentlemen.   Randy Taylor  26:56 One of the things that's not happening in mainstream media right now, is investigative reporting. It is absolutely a vacuum. You know, you could use an example of CTV, Global, CBC, anyone will take a clip of the housing minister in a scrum saying, yes, we've just run the numbers, and it looks terrific. It appears that we're on track to build 4 million homes by 2030. And they run that, and that's the story.   Randy Taylor  27:28 No! That's not the story. That's what he said. And the CBC’s job used to be, they would go and investigate that and bring in experts and do their own number crunching and the rest of it and come out and say, well, actually, we're only building 240,000 homes a year. Now, how do you suppose you're going to make that happen? And half of the opposition on to provide their side of, you know, their take on this, and it's not happening. So, Canadians are completely in the dark. And people wonder why they're disillusion because no one's telling them the truth.   Will Dove  28:04 I love that you brought that up, Randy, that bit of an investigative journalism. Like yourself, I do interviews, but I also do as my limited time allows as much investigative journalism as I can, which comes down to asking questions of somebody said here, well, that's nice. Let's do some math. Let's dig into that. Let's see if this makes any sense.   Will Dove  28:22 But there's a major problem. And the problem is that investigative journalism is time consuming. And sometimes you end up spending hours going down a rabbit trail, only to find it didn't lead anywhere. So, somebody has to be able to pay those investigative journalists. And right now, we're in a situation where we've got all of these small independent media outlets such as mine, such as one you guys are launching. At what point in time do you think we can either, I don't know, build a coalition, or get one of us to the point where we're big enough that we can have an investigative journalist or two on staff, and pay them to spend two days chasing something to find it didn't go anywhere? Your thoughts, Rodney?   Rodney Palmer  29:05 I think that when you have investigative journalism, where the type that I did, you also need a lawyer on staff. So, every piece that I did investigate, that I worked on for anywhere from between a week and two, three months. My final editor after the script was approved was a lawyer. And I had to sit with him and read it and play all the clips, and they would stop and say, “Okay, wait a minute, how do you know that?”, “What's your evidence?” And I would say, “This document.” “Okay, good. Can I have a copy?”, “How do you know that?”, “Okay, this recording.” Okay, fine. “How do you know that?” “Well, these seven people said it.” They wanted to keep it all because this is my defense if we get sued.   Rodney Palmer  29:40 So, you have to prepare for that if you're doing that type of investigative journalism. And now we're in the world of law fair, where you might get sued anyway, just to try to cripple you financially, whether they think they're going to win or not. But you simply - what Randy's describing is like the lowest common denominator of investigative journalism. I don't even call it investigative, simply doing your job, getting the other side of the story.   Rodney Palmer  30:03 And what we're setting up now is we are not trying to be today's news. We're not trying to be first out there, first past the post, it's more important to be first than right. We're looking at a broad, we're looking, we're talking about the whole nation in two hours. So, we're maybe picking one topic. And if we don't have the other side, let's keep them giving them a chance. Let's do that story tomorrow. Let's do that story next week. Let's wait until we can give the type of discourse that Canadians can't hear anywhere else, except on TalkNation.ca. And then let's get ready. Once it's ready and fully formed, then we'll put it up.   Will Dove  30:39 Right. Randy, your thoughts on that?   Randy Taylor  30:41 I honestly don't think that the reporting is that difficult. There are so many sources available now. We have this magic box called a computer in front of us. And it's the transporter of all the information from the world to us. And then, we can on our own, be able to do some estimation and crunch the numbers and ask the important questions that no one else did. When you look at, you know, whether it's the housing front, and again, the minister said 4 million homes. Well, it took me literally 60 seconds to go and find out that the most homes that Canada has ever built, I think was two years ago, which was 242,000 homes. So do the math, that's a million homes, every four years. Like, being generous. Where are we getting the other 3 million homes?   Randy Taylor  31:33 So, when you ask these questions, and then you bring all of the elements into it and say, you know, so you have this accelerator fund right now, and the Liberal government just spent $4 billion of tax dollars, supposedly, to try and launch more new home starts, let's ask the honest question, what drives housing sales? Is it government subsidy, or consumer demand? Of course it's consumer demand. I mean, it's always going to be consumer demand.   Randy Taylor  32:04 And as long as you leave the Bank of Canada interest rates as high as they are, it cripples the public, it took me another three minutes to look up at current interest rates, a $600,000 mortgage, at the current rate which is $4,428, back down to 3% is $2,800, less than it is to rent a one-bedroom condo in Toronto. So, posing those questions and letting the public know that information. Armed them with something to say, okay, I don't believe that person. Right? Because now I know more of the facts as the great clip used to say, and now you know the rest of the story.   Rodney Palmer  32:46 What Randy said there is very interesting. To guys like Randy and me, journalism is not that hard. You know, hi, would you like to tell your story? We're really interested in it. Who's in your way? Well, it's that guy. Oh, hi, that guy. This guy we're interviewing, and he's saying some stuff about you. We really want to hear your side of the story. Would you like to talk to us? Be polite, treat every person like a child of God, they have a story to tell. We want to hear it. That's all we're doing here. It's not that hard.   Will Dove  33:19 Alright, now in regards to that investigative journalism, and I made my own comments about it at, yes, there have been times when I chase something for hours on it and it didn't go anywhere. But I've also had many experiences like Randy's where it took literally minutes and a little bit of math to punch a hole in the story we were being told. And mainstream media doesn't seem to be doing that anymore. They don't ask the simplest of questions.   Randy Taylor  33:45 No, not at all.   Will Dove  33:46 It was very early on in this interview, Rodney, you made reference to this, that they're not news anymore, they're propaganda. And we're seeing that in the continued decline in viewership and listenership of mainstream media. And based upon your extensive experience, both of you, I'm going to ask a really difficult question. How far away do you think we are from the collapse of mainstream media in this country? Just get to the point where they're irrelevant.   Rodney Palmer  34:15 I think we're past it. I think they are irrelevant. I said that a year ago, when I had the privilege to meet Jordan Peterson at a public event. And I told him I used to work for the mainstream media. And he basically just about to spat on the floor in front of me. And he said, “It's all it's all drying up.” And I said, “It's already irrelevant.” And we know this because they're losing their audience in droves. And I don't think it's because they understand, particularly like I do what they're doing wrong. I think it's just because it gets dead boring when there's no conflict anymore. Every story goes back to the caveman sitting around the fire, every story's got a conflict. If it doesn't have a conflict, it's not a story worth telling.   Rodney Palmer  34:52 So, if there's one side of the story, and there's no conflict, our human minds that understand story, perhaps better than anything, we know instinctively in our guts that it's just dead boring. And that's why we're not listening to it anymore. So, I think they're finished. And I think that's why the Iron Will Report, the Grey Matter of Leighton Grey, Fire and Ice of Jamie Salé, Rebel News, the Bright Light News, there's a dozen of them. Shadoe Davis and what he's doing out of Winnipeg, brilliant radio announcer. These people are all out there because the mainstream is now irrelevant.   Will Dove  35:35 Yes, although I would voice a little differently, because mainstream is now lying to people - left, right and center. Somebody had to tell them the truth. But anyway, that thought injected, Randy, your thoughts, mainstream media? How far away are we from them just becoming completely irrelevant?   Randy Taylor  35:53 I think we're always - I think I'll counter my partner on this, in that. Having been on air for so many years. The public are busy raising families, they're paying taxes, they're dealing with seniors, I mean, all of the issues of life. So, you know, where we are so ensconced in the product, and we know so much about it. And we just assume that the masses probably feel the same way that we do.   Randy Taylor  36:26 But they don't, they don't have the time for it. They don't genuinely have the interest in it. And so, I think they're much more likely to just accept whatever problem is being sent to them. So, the media being co-opted, has happened over, you know, considerable period of time. It went from the days, back in the day when I first started, when Rodney was with CBC and CTV. You know, that was great honor, in storytelling and broadcasting and reporting, but it's, you know, the country has been the frog in the pot. And today, we are where we are.   Randy Taylor  37:00 And people will still say, well, last night, I heard on the news, the prime minister said this last night, I heard on the news. It's like guys, there is no news. They're a mouthpiece for who's ever paying the freight. Whether it's government, whether it's pharma, whoever it is, they have given it up. I've even tried to be kind and say, they're just lazy, I don't know. But the truth is not getting to people. And so, when you see major issues going on like the WHO co-opting half of the cabinet and beginning to insert themselves into the health care system of Canada and our freedoms and rights. And people, the public, they'll just gloss over. Because the media hasn't made an issue out of it. It just came and went, the boats there, it goes on, out of the oilers do, right?   Randy Taylor  37:53 And it's kind of like that when I was in a program, on music radio a long time ago, we would have announced our meetings and I told my guys all the time, I said, “You know what? You think you're the sun and moon and stars. Here's the truth. What you say on the radio every day is a little less important than the color of their toast in the morning. Don't forget that.” So, I think it's going to take a real concerted effort from guys like you and guys like us and all the other broadcasters, all the great organizations in Canada that are, you know, trying to do God's work, whether it's the Taxpayers Federation, or Canadian Federation of Independent Business, and organic associations, and all these people. We need to elevate that voice together to start to have people go, “Wait a second, I don't think I'm hearing the truth.” That's when I think the shift could happen.   Will Dove  38:43 I think you're absolutely right, Randy, I want to insert somebody on comments about that. You made reference to a quote from Klaus Schwab, and let's start with that one. And my viewers have seen it. Your listeners have probably seen it. We all know the video. We have penetrated over half the cabinets. But the thing is, nobody in mainstream media has ever seen that clip. They won't play it. They have no interest in it. They don't want people see that.   Randy Taylor  39:13 Well, they've seen it. The media, they've seen the clip. They're just choosing not to play it.   Will Dove  39:18 But it's an admission right down to…   Rodney Palmer  39:22 It’s most extraordinary story element, Will.  You've put your finger on the most extraordinary story of the last four years, where a foreign lobbyist Klaus Schwab, head of the World Economic Forum, a lobby group, says publicly that he has penetrated the cabinet of Canada. How is that not front-page news until every one of those cabinet ministers is named and made to resign? Instead, ignored.   Randy Taylor  39:56 I saw a clip a couple of months ago, maybe a month ago, as an aside, saying, and I promise you that not one member of my cabinet is allowed any communication with the World Economic Forum and Klaus Schwab, end of story. Why didn't the media jump on that and say, “What are you talking about?” Well, you know, there's a number of people in cabinet right now that have been co-opted by this guy that is consistently telling the world you will own nothing and be happy. And nothing. Crickets. Right?   Rodney Palmer  40:29 Well, not only that, but our finance minister and deputy prime minister is a director of the World Economic Forum, which is a lobbyist, and sits in the cabinet as the deputy prime minister, this is an obvious conflict of interest. What if that person were on a lobby group for any other corporation or any other idea fund, anything where they have to put all that into a blind trust and do the job they're paid to do or they're elected to do, which is to run the country and run the portfolio they're given. And if she is Chrystia Freeland sits in conflict of interest every day in favor of the World Economic Forum, infiltrating the Canadian government at the highest level.   Will Dove  41:11 And I'm glad you brought that up, Rodney, because it allows us to demonstrate how global this problem is. I've said to my viewers, so many times, you cannot afford to be geocentric in your thinking, you cannot just look at a candidate, you have to look at the whole world and see what's happening. Rodney, you were just talking about Chrystia Freeland, who is a trustee with the World Economic Forum. Well, they just had the elections in the EU, and who is president of the European Union's parliament, but Ursula von der Leyen, who is also a trustee of the World Economic Forum.   Will Dove  41:47 If people are putting this together, that you've got somebody who works for essentially a foreign power, infiltrating your government and manipulating it. And so, I'm bringing that full circle. The reason why I talked about all that was I wanted to come back to what Randy been talking about, about how it's going to take all of us, because whether a person agrees with Rodney that we're already at a point where mainstream media is irrelevant, or whether you agree with you, Randy, that we had a waste of deal yet to bury these people. It's been a take all of our voices, because none of us have that huge budget, none of us can go out and just buy a network and suddenly be in front of 10 million viewers.   Will Dove  42:26 And this is a comment that I've made a number of times that I don't see journalists such as yourselves, or Glen Jung with Bright Light or any of the others as being my competition. No, no, you're my partners. Because we have a huge job do. To get the truth out there.   Will Dove  42:42 So now all of that said, I think that one of the things that we have to do as journalists, and I'm sure you'll agree, we have to do a better job than the mainstream does. Now, right now, that's not that hard. But I like to think that we will hold ourselves to a very high standard, regardless of what their standard is. And this comes back to something that you were talking about earlier, Rodney, with instinct. There was instinct that had you turn around from that scrum in front of the high school and walk down and talk to the guy who was starting a police force that would be bidding against the OPP.   Will Dove  43:16 And I know, Randy, even without having listened to your interviews, yet, I will. You've done this many times, your guest says something. And it triggers a question. I refer to it as the gap. They said something, but I'm missing a piece of information. There's a gap there, and I can't draw a full conclusion until they fill in the gap. Or my mind leapt ahead to a conclusion. But I need more information. There's a gap. Randy, how do you define that instinct of asking the right question?   Randy Taylor  43:50 I think it's a curiosity, you know, that it's born into people who are - how do we come into this world? These, you know, kicking, screaming little babies, and then we end up in broadcasting? What did we do wrong? So, I think that there's something innate about that. But it also comes from a real desire. I mean, while doing the interview process, to me is important to be able to tell as much of the story and get as much of the information in front of the public as possible. I also see my job as being important to somehow be the guy who gets in people's ears to say, “You got to step up.” Okay? And I mean this, I mean, our ancestors went across the world. My uncle Ted didn't know when he got on the boat in Halifax that my aunt Yvonne was three months pregnant with his first son and didn't see him for two years. And all of his buddies they died, covered in mud and snow and blood in horror on the other side of the world so we could do this.   Randy Taylor  45:02 And so, my message to all Canadians is, really, you're going to turn tail and do nothing. When we're asking you to just get involved politically, to do something to not have the next generation look you in the eye and say, why didn't you try? I think we need to start having that conversation that it's not, well, you know, I think we should – no! I've never, I've been on this rock for over six decades, I have never seen the trouble that this country is in right now. The clock is ticking. If Canadians on mass, it's regardless of whatever happens on my show. If this doesn't inspire a lot of people to pick up the fight and get involved. I don't know. I don't know what's going to happen to my kids’ future and I care.   Will Dove  45:53 Right. Now, Rodney, I call it the gap, Randy refers to it as simple curiosity, years and years of experience as an investigative journalist, how would you define that instinct?   Rodney Palmer  46:08 To me, it’s where the conflict in the story, what two sides are opposing, and what's the way up the middle? That's the story that always grabs me. And from there, everything else comes - who you interview, how you interview them, the questions you ask them. And I always try to take an oppositional position. So, if I'm interviewing two sides of a story, I assume the other side of my mind when I'm talking to this guy. And then I assume this guy’s side when I'm talking to that guy. And then we get the best responses for them both because you have to remember, whereas Randy and I are professionals, the people we interview are usually not.   Rodney Palmer  46:44 So, a big part of our job is to make them comfortable, to focus them, to talk to them before they go on to say you've got a big story, you've got a lifelong story. This is what we want to talk to for these few minutes. So, there's actually a lot of training and a lot of professionalism that goes into making a great radio show. Great. And then when you hand it to a gifted master like Randy Taylor, Randy's in charge now, because Randy has the instinct. There's a reason this isn't the called the Rodney Palmer show. It's because I know my lane here, Randy is just head and shoulders better than anybody I've ever seen on the air, including myself.   Will Dove  47:19 And that's it. And once again, I'm glad you brought that up, because it allows me to reference something that the viewers don't see on your show, Randy, and on mine. With you guys, because you're an experienced journalist, I think we chatted for about two minutes before we jumped into the interview. But there's lots of guests I have who some of them have never been interviewed before, they've never been on screen before. Well, you got to take 10 or 15 minutes just to chat with them beforehand, before you ever start cameras rolling, to get them to, yeah, relax and start talking about their stories and get a sense of where they're going to want to go. And also, a sense of how they like to talk because that's another big part of it.   Will Dove  47:54 As both of you know and especially Randy, as I said earlier in the interview, you've got this people where you'll give them a question, they'll go for 15 minutes before they'll even begin to wind down, then get the wind through, you got to ask them a question every 30 seconds, to try to pull information out of them. And you have to adapt yourself to the style of your guests. Some people don't like being interrupted; other people are okay with it. There's a lot of interpersonal relationships that go on there. And I know this is all stuff that you have learned Randy in all of your years of doing this. And I'm sure that, Rodney, you’ve had your share of it too.   Will Dove  48:24 Gentleman, you're about to launch Talk Nation Radio. And as you've made clear, a big part of what you want from this is for people not just to be, but to take action. And so, I have to assume that that's going to color your content. And if your launch is as close as it is, I'm sure you already have guests lined up, if you haven't already done some of those interviews or some of those shows. What's your focus coming into the shoot?   Randy Taylor  48:48 I mean, it's all the meat and potato issues right now. There are, it used to be said that Canadian politics was so boring. You know, that's why everyone watched CNN and NBC and all the other stations now. But there are so many issues that are truly concerning to Canadians whether, you know, right down to our food supply, the health of Canadians, the illness of children, the incidence of autism, it is housing epidemic, it's immigration, it's government debt, it's - pick one, right? So, those are all, I think, what we refer to as the meat and potatoes issues that I think are impacting people. People are talking about, they'd like answers about, they're not getting them. And so, we'll start there, because there's no lack of stories in those spaces.   Rodney Palmer  49:40 And we're also looking at solutions, Will. We don’t want to just talk about people complaining about something and banging their head against the wall and we can't get the other side to talk. We're very interested in people who are making change. You know, there's several of the stories that are on in our production meetings right now about independent candidates running for office. The rise of alternative parties outside of the mainstream parties, the push toward education of community groups, moving off grid moving out of the cities, people who are doing stuff, not just people who are complaining about it, but actually doing stuff. Those are the people we want to talk to. Those are the Canadians that we want to put their voices on the air every day. So, we can we can give Canada hope that people are finding solutions.   Rodney Palmer  50:29 And if you listen to talknation.ca, and you hear on a daily basis, people who are finding solutions, you might just be inspired to find your own solution. And that's our goal, it’s to empower people to think for themselves and to do for themselves.   Randy Taylor  50:44 Yeah, and, you know, to join in with some of these other organizations too. A lot of the guests that we have on, you know, people like you who have a platform as well. Well, maybe you want to listen to Will more, maybe I'll want to join the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, they're doing wonderful things, or I'm a small business owner, I'll join the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, we elevate more and more and more of those voices. They're going to start more and more and more looking at the television and calling BS, because they're going to become educated.   Will Dove  51:16 And plus, you make a very good point there, Randy, that’s because there are a number of us, this is a very good thing. People can choose the style of journalism they like the most. If it's not made, no problem. Go listen to Bright Light, or go listen to Rebel News, or listen to you guys, whatever. As long as you listen to somebody who's telling you the truth, I'm happy.   Will Dove  51:34 So, I'm going to ask both of you this final open-ended question. You've launched Talk Nation Radio, and you're both very, very expressed in journalism. And you understand something that a lot of people do not. And I'm going to tell a little bit of an anecdote here. Because not just a journalist as Rodney knows, I'm also the founder of Strong and Free Canada. I've been a freedom fighter for years. I know a lot of people say to me, Will, you should run for office. And I'll say to them, I can have far, far more influence as a journalist than I can as a politician. We're not just telling stories. We're trying to change our country. So, here's my open-ended question, with Talk Nation Radio, with what you guys should doing, what changes do you want to see in the coming years here in Canada? Rodney, you go first.   Rodney Palmer  52:29 I'd like to see more people voting, more than the 49% that we have. If it's even that, I'd like to see our numbers to get up to be World Records for voter turnout. That in itself would show that we now have a robust democracy that tries hard and participates. We want to encourage people to participate in the voting system, whether it be for school board, town council, city council, provincial legislature, Federal House Commons, Parliament, get out there and vote. Run, if that's your lane, talk about it. Campaign for someone that you want. Not everybody's a candidate, Will. You're sitting in your chair, saying, I know my lane, I don't want to be a candidate.   Rodney Palmer  53:10 I had a good friend named Martin Vaughan, who I worked with very closely at the CBC. And when I left journalism, he left around the same time and he went into politics. And he was a city councilor for a couple of terms in Toronto, and he got a lot done, because he could curtail how the building went. He said, we're building too many tiny little apartments in downtown Toronto, I want some 4-bedroom apartments on there. So, families can move in, I want you to be able to knock out the wall between two condos so families can move in there. And then he got wooed by Justin Trudeau.   Rodney Palmer  53:40 And he went up to the Liberal Party and became a federal member. And he comes back to me goes, “Oh, yeah, I can't get anything done anymore. I'm in this giant machine, I got to stick in my lane. If I want to talk about housing, they say, shut up, that's my lane.” And he was done. And he went two to three rounds, and he retired from it. But you're right. In politics, you can do less than you can in journalism, for sure. And that's what we want to do. We want to get people listening to the daily discourse.   Rodney Palmer  54:06 Remember two things here. One is that journalism is not just a pillar of democracy, it is democracy. It requires us understanding the truth, speaking about it, informing our different opinions about it, and then going to the polls and finding a majority, that is absolutely critical. But we can't find out what we agree on until we can agree on what's true. And right now, we're not being fed what's true, except by people like yourself, and the other smaller alternatives. And the other thing is, and this is really a foundation of what we're doing here at talknation.ca, there's a Buckminster Fuller quote that says, “When the system is broken, don't try to fix it. Create a new system that makes the old system obsolete.” And I think that's what the alternative media is doing right now in Canada, is we're making the old system obsolete.   Will Dove  54:54 Randy, your thoughts?   Randy Taylor  54:59 Exactly. Everything that Rodney said. And on top of that, for voters to take the time and become educated. We can't start forming governments in the future given the current state of the nation based on sound clips, and headlines and little bites in what your neighbor thinks. We need to take this seriously. I'm hoping that everyone that's listening to this right now says, okay, yeah, I guess we used to vote the way our dad did, or a mom did or my brother does or whatever. Now this is a time where you really need to go and find out all you can find out about all the parties. And regardless of who you vote for, make it an educated vote. That's going to make the country better. Because if we continue throwing darts, we're going to continue getting more of what we're getting, and we're running out of time.   Will Dove  55:55 Very well said. Thank you, gentlemen, for your time. Thank you for what you're doing. I wish you greatest success. And looking forward to hearing your launch and your interviews.   Randy Taylor  56:04 And congratulations to you too, Will. Excellent. Keep up the great work. We're on the same bus.   Will Dove  56:13 All right. Thank you.   Rodney Palmer  56:14 Thanks, Will.