SUMMARY KEYWORDS rna, virus, people, immune system, immune response, problem, imprinting, malone, book, world, t cells, cell, variant, long, infected, immune, inoculated, infection, harare, suppress SPEAKERS Dr. Malone, Will Dove Will Dove 00:07 My guest today is Dr. Robert Malone. Many of you know that Dr. Malone is the inventor of the mRNA vaccine platform, and that he has been working tirelessly to raise awareness of the disastrous consequences of their use for vaccination against COVID-19. Dr. Malone is a medical doctor and pathologist with expertise in immunology, virology and molecular biology. It is a safe statement to make that there is no one in the world better qualified to understand the reasons why these mRNA vaccines should not be used. After over two years in this battle, to bring people to truth, Dr. Malone has published an extensive book titled Government Told Me, and the Better Future Coming". This book runs to over 500 pages and covers a diverse range of topics, as well as chapters from eminent guests such as Dr. Pierre Kory, and Dr. Paul Marik, the co founders of the Frontline COVID, Critical Care Alliance, Matthias Desmet, the author of "The Psychology of Totalitarianism", Edward Dowd, the former Blackrock fund manager turned whistleblower, and many others. Dr. Malone, it's a pleasure to have you on the Show. Dr. Malone 01:19 Likewise, thank you for the opportunity to talk to you and to your audience. Will Dove 01:25 You've made the statement to me prior to the interview, that you've been attacked, actually by a number of people as the inventor of the mRNA vaccines, and you corrected me, before we started the interview, know, the inventor of the mRNA platform. I want to get into what you talked about in the book of immune imprinting, or what's been called original antigenic sin and what the fallout is going to be from that. But we have to lay a little bit of groundwork first, because you made a very important point in the book that the mRNA platform as you research it, as you envisioned it. That's not what's being injected into people. They're being injected with what you call a pseudo urethane mRNA vaccine. Would you please explain the difference? Dr. Malone 02:08 RNA, like DNA is composed of four different basic constituents that are arranged in a controlled sequence, just as zeros and ones control the information bitstream in a digital world, in the nucleic acid world, which is how we store all of our information that that guides who we are as biologic entities, is a four base system A, T, G and C in the case of DNA, and A, U, G and C in the case of RNA, so Pseudouridine is a modified you. And that modification occurs in a tightly regulated fashion, using a specific enzyme in our cells. And that modification controls all kinds of key functions of RNA; its its inflammatory properties, or its immunosuppressive properties, its duration, its longevity, its post transcriptional processing. In other words, it RNA gets clipped after it's initially made to form the final, mature RNA. All of these things are controlled by a Pseudouridine that is strategically placed by the cell in a regulated fashion. Kariko and Wiseman - there was a strong attempt to try to get them the Nobel Prize two years ago, but that did not prevail, came about a decade after me. And they tried to solve one of the key problems of these lipid RNA complexes. And a shout out goes to University of British Columbia and their group for the improved formulations that go into this. But one of the core problems of this technology, Peter Cullis in particular, I think, is the name that should be acknowledged in Canada. One of the problems of this technology is it is incredibly inflammatory. So Kariko and Wiseman found that if they put if they substituted Pseudouridine for the US when they synthesize the RNA in the test tube, using the methods that I had developed a decade before, then a lot of these problems kind of got tamped down because if the, if you have Pseudouridine all the way through the RNA, it really suppresses the inflammation. And it produces a a novel, it's really not a natural RNA. It's a novel biomolecule that is very long lived. And now we know this is the kind of thing that should have been done before this is ever injected into humans, but the regulatory authorities didn't force the pharmaceutical industry to do its job as they normally would for some reason, they decided to bypass all that. What we now know as of February of 2022 in a cell paper from Stanford is that these RNAs that are jammed full of Pseudouridine will last in human tissue and continue producing protein for at least 60 days. And this is a key paper that also talks about as its primary focus, of course, immune imprinting, the RNAs are immunosuppressive. These are not natural RNAs, we were told and your physicians in Canada were told that these RNAs after injection for this vaccine will only stick around for a few hours. And that's true for natural RNA is absolutely not true for these highly pseudo urethane modified molecules that aren't really RNA, there's something else, they're not a natural, biological molecule, they look like one, but they're not. And so these products stick around for a very long time, they produce a surprisingly large amount of protein. In fact, the levels of Spike protein that are produced after the mRNA inoculations are considerably higher than the levels that are produced from the actual infection. And rather than in the natural infection, they come up slowly, and then the immune response kicks in. And then they kind of drop off. In the case of the jabs, the spike protein rises very rapidly to levels that aren't seen in natural infection, and then gradually gradually tapers. And it's unclear, with these hyper stabilized RNAs, whether they survive cell death or apoptosis, or otherwise, they may well. So it may be that these are are like bits of plastic as a metaphor, in that they produce their their effect on one cell, and then survive the death of that cell when it gets attacked. Because it has, its expressing spike protein. So typically attacked by T cells. And those RNAs may be released and taken up by other cells. We don't know none of this has been done. So in sum, the RNA is not natural, it is highly modified. It has characteristics that are not those of natural RNAs, they're not even really well characterized. The nature in science behind Pseudouridine modification has really not been done. It's still in early phase development, that discovery research so we don't really know what's going on here. Now, in addition to the characteristics of the RNA itself, being immunosuppressive very long lived, etc. we have the effects of the vaccines and this transitions to you. We're talking about this very sexy term 'original antigenic sin' that's easy to remember, or immune imprinting. What is that all about? What it comes down to is our immune systems learn from the first time they encounter something that has a particular characteristic, a an antigen. They learn from that original antigen that they encountered. This is the problem with influenza vaccines with repeated influenza vaccination. And it's well documented in the literature. And I cite some of those references in the book. It's long been known that if you keep giving people influenza vaccine, you will drive this same phenomenon where people become less and less and less responsive, less and less than less protected. Because what happens is your immune system becomes increasingly focused on responding to the thing that was the first time they encountered that particular antigenic structure. You're basically training the immune system to respond to something that in the case of SARS, cov, two, the spike protein from Wuhan one no longer exists. And so you're forcing people to be biased in terms of their immune response against something that no longer exists. And you're suppressing the ability of the immune response to detect other things that are related that might have come later. I hope that made some sense. I often use the metaphor of warfare. It's akin to the French and The Maginot Line . They thought this would absolutely keep the Germans out. And your immune system kind of does that too. It's always fighting the last war. Of course, we know the history of World War II along comes the bouncers in the loop ofa and they blew right through it. That's kind of a good metaphor for this problem of immune imprinting or original antigenic sin. Our immune systems develop a bias based on their first experiences that skew everything they do subsequently. And if you do this process of repeated jabs, like we've done and you, you are well aware in the book cites the rich literature, including a UK study on health care workers over time, that documents very clearly what happens when people are, were, for instance, infected with Wuhan one originally and then subsequently received these repeated boosters, and then are exposed to say, Omicron. And now the Canadian data, although it's been censored more recently, early on, it was showing this effect, that the highly inoculated are actually more likely to be hospitalized and die. And now finally, despite all the manipulation of data at the CDC, just today, it's there's data release that are clearly demonstrating that the people that are at highest risk for hospitalization and death in the United States and also, by the way, the rest of the world, including Israel, are the ones that have taken these repeated inoculations for exactly this reason of immune imprinting or original antigenic sin, driving their immune systems to a position where they're not able to really respond to the new evolved viruses. And on top of that, the Pseudouridine incorporating RNA, and probably the effects of the lipids, and the effects of the spike protein are also further suppressing their capability of, of responding immunologically. And we knew this early on, that's the sick, sad thing here. Early early on, when they started deploying the vaccines, one of the side effects that was known is the reactivation of latent DNA viruses. This is the Epstein Barr Virus problem, and the shingles problem, okay, these are viruses, DNA viruses that reside inside of ourselves over a long period of time that our immune system keeps in check. And what was being observed early on is with the inoculations, suddenly, these viruses were being reactivated. And people were having disease associated with that. Well, that was a clear indication that T cell suppression was happening, because otherwise those things wouldn't be coming back out again. And yet the governments of the world completely neglected to recognize the signal and to respond appropriately to it. And from the pharmaceutical industry standpoint, it's always been the policy, that you don't do any studies unless the regulatory authorities force you to because you might get an answer that you don't like, and it would hurt your profit. And that's why we have to have we absolutely must have independent regulators. But in this case, all across the western world, the independence of the regulatory authorities was compromised. Will Dove 12:48 If you're not quite following the immune imprinting that Dr. Malone was talking about, stick with us for a few minutes, you will, it's important. But you also made reference to the T cells. And I want to give people just a very quick plain English primer on the immune system, the B cells, the T cells, because this is vital to understanding where we're going with this. So I'm going to give you my own very plain English layman's definition of what these instruments within our immune system are. What B cells do is they - let's actually start with the virus, the virus itself, viruses get into a cell, and they hijack the genetic machinery of the cell to make copies of themselves and to send those out and to infect other cells. So what the B cells do is they place markers on infected cells, make targets out of them, and the long term the T cells, which will recognize those markers and destroy those cells, so they'll stop producing the virus. Once you destroy enough of these cells, well, now you've destroyed the factories and making the virus and the system recovers. So here's where we're going with this. When you talk about the immune imprinting, what Dr. Malone is referring to, and he made a really good analogy with The Maginot Line in France, because it was World War One strategy that had worked in World War One. But one they didn't count on tanks and planes it did was completely irrelevant. Come World War Two, they just German forces just went right passed. So this is the same concept. And to give you a little bit of real life data from this, one of the things is referred to in Dr. Malone's book is that study that he talked about the health care workers, where they found that if a worker had been infected with the original wound strain, and they got one shot, well, their immune system would still operate fairly well. But by the time they had three shots, their T cell response to an Omicron infection was reduced by 90%. And I want to give just a little bit more background before I hand this back to Dr. Malone. We've talked about what the B cells are what the T cells are. So if you suppress these, you've got a problem if you suppress just the B cells. Well, now the infected cells aren't being painted with that target. And so even if the T cells are working fine, well, they can't find the enemy to destroyed. If you suppress the T cells, then you're getting viruses, the infected cells being marked, but you don't have anything to come along and destroy them with. And if you suppress both, of course, now you have a real problem. So that's where we're going with this immune imprinting. Because if you set somebody up with an original infection, so that the body is now primed to attack that particular virus, and then you change it, a variant, you've crippled that immune response that B and T cell response. Now the body can't deal with it. Dr. Malone, please correct me if I got any of that wrong, because it's extremely important. Dr. Malone 15:43 Well, there's subtle nuances, the the painting metaphor, I think that your intentional conscious simplification is really useful and adequate, or introductory immunology to help folks kind of think it through and I think is good enough. Of course, one of the things that you wanted to highlight in this that we haven't yet spoken about is that the data are showing that it is the immunosuppressed, so for instance, these people that have experienced this problem of immune imprinting, and the immunodeficient, that includes people that are being treated with chemotherapy, people with various types of immunodeficiency syndrome, it doesn't just have to be AIDS, as many types of the data show that these are the people that are actually breeding the Escape means the modified viruses that are able to evade the pre existing immune responses in all of us, whether we have natural infection, or we have these inoculated very focused, limited immune responses. And that's, that seems to be a key player in this continued evolution of more highly infectious variants. And I actually was attacked quite in a nasty way, by one of your Canadian scientists about nine to 12 months ago, for saying these things, but in fact, the data have come in. And there's no question that the combination of the vaccination global vaccination is now billions of doses that have been administered. Plus this effect of basically breeding in the context of people with immunosuppression, which includes those that are subjected to this immune imprinting phenomenon are the are the people that are actually putting the rest of us at risk, as so many of my colleagues have noted all along. The deployment of these products globally, in all age ranges, was a huge strategic and tactical mistake, they should have been reserved these products to the extent they were useful for anyone. And increasingly, the data suggests that they are neither safe nor effective for any age. And to the extent that there was any value, they should have been focused on those that are at highest risk, the immunosuppressed, morbidly obese, the extremely elderly, and allowed the rest of us to develop natural immunity, which is broad based against multiple antigens much longer lasting. Now, the latest recommendation coming out of the US government is that people should be inoculated every two months. And the reason is, because if you look at the protection, the effectiveness of the vaccine, and you plot it over time, what you see is that, starting at about two months after inoculation, you start moving into negative effectiveness. And it just gets worse and worse as time goes on. Negative effectiveness, that's that's something that's hard to kind of comprehend. What does that mean? What the what it means is that after about two months, if you've taken the jab, you actually become clearly more likely to be hospitalized or die. And it's a slope. And so initially, right after the jab, you get some protection, but then it rapidly tapers off. And so you're stuck on this treadmill, if you bought into this system, where you know, from a pharmaceutical standpoint, I said today, it's the ultimate cash cow. Every two months, you get to milk it, and you get the benefits of the governments of the world forcing through their propaganda, people to take these products now at a two month interval. But for those of us that opted out whether they had the foresight to never take the inoculation or like knee, they took two doses, and in my case, I had almost died from the second one I had severe hypertension. It was life threatening, after which I said, Hell no, I'm not going to take another jab. Are you crazy? I don't want to die. So I've been infected a few times, now. I had the Delta variant that was a rough one. I'm sure I've had Omicron since then. But I seem to have developed a fairly broad based immune response as most of us have. Most of us whether we're inoculated or not have natural immunity now we have been infected. And the ones that are really in a rough spot are those that have followed the government narrative that's been pushed by the corporate media and through all this censorship, and have bought into taking this inoculation after inoculation. And now they got a problem, because they're kind of stuck in this situation where they're either kind of going to have to go cold turkey for a while and be at risk, or they're, they're stuck in this treadmill. And every time they take the jab is another roll of the dice, another spin of the roulette wheel, or whether or not they're going to have one of these major toxicity events, including stroke, thrombosis, and myocarditis or pericarditis that's life threatening. Will Dove 20:57 Having laid all that groundwork, I want to give a brief summary of where I'm going with all of this and get your thoughts on it. What we've demonstrated is that if you were infected with, say, the original Wuhan strain that caused that imprinting that original engineered sense, so now your immune system is primed for that particular variant or strain of the virus. Now, along comes Omicron, which has evolved, which is what viruses do, they evolve to survive the immune system to get past it. But because these people with these multiple shots have been programmed, their immune systems programmed to deal with that original strain, it has a very hard time dealing with this next one. And so what happened as a result of these injections, is that we've essentially taken what is a minor flu and I'm, that's not my term, that was the term used by Dr. John Ioannidis who did this terrible prevalence studies on it, a minor flu, and we've turned it into a major epidemic, a pandemic, that making people sick over and over and over again, with the same virus, it's making people sick for long periods of time. And that's not even getting into the other harms of the injections. And I made reference earlier, and I'm just about that my conclusion here, I made reference earlier to the fact that you say it in the book. But if you take somebody who had that original infection, with the first Wu Han string, then you give them three doses. Now their T cell immune systems, Mr. pressed by 90%. Dr. Malone 22:23 That's what the peer reviewed data show. It's not you or me inventing it, it's the data. Will Dove 22:27 So here's the question I want to get to. Do you think we just might see a variant come along to which the immune response of the multiply injected it's going to be zero, and it's going to kill them? Dr. Malone 22:43 So that's the Dr. Geert Vanden Bossche nightmare scenario of basically increased pathogenicity as a consequence of repeat vaccination into the face of an outbreak. There are a variety of molecular mechanisms by which this could occur. And it is absolutely the dark threat that exists here is that we could have a escape mutant that would be potentially highly lethal, in the absence of some therapeutic. And so we don't have to be totally dark about this. We seem to be having some breakthroughs, in terms of acknowledgement that things like ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, zinc, Azithromycin used in combination can really be fairly effective. And the problem is that they're still not accepted. The public health system in Canada in most of the hospitals in the United States and throughout the world, with some exceptions, and Uttar Pradesh, of course, is a notable example. In Tennessee, now you can buy ivermectin over the counter in Mexico is one of the major manufacturers of ivermectin. And one can obtain it readily in Mexico, so that for those poor souls who find themselves in that position, there is hope. But they are going to have to find physicians that are willing to provide early treatment. And I noticed that just today or yesterday, the last monoclonal antibody strategy that was available, the last monoclonal antibody product available in the United States at least has been withdrawn from the market, because it's no longer effective because the viruses evolved to escape its ability to provide benefit with the monoclonal injection. So for those poor souls that are in this box, they darn well better find a physician that is willing and able to provide early treatment. And ideally, they should have these agents available in their home. Should they start to develop the clinical characteristics of COVID. And I would recommend with all of the deficiencies of the rapid tests that exist, have some of those around in your home. And if you do become antigen positive, which has false negatives, as well as false positives, but a lot of these agents like hydroxychloroquine nd ivermectin are actually very, very safe, despite what Merck tried to get you to believe. And if you use them, and you weren't actually infected by SARS COV 2, it's not going to cause major disease. The lesson learned and of course, this is covered in in Pierre Kory section, in the front of the book, the lesson learned all the way through this is early treatment saves lives. And it will save lives for those that are subjected to this problem that you're correctly identifying. Will Dove 25:55 Dr. Malone, I have one last question. And I'm going to stress my own understanding of the science to make sure I'm getting this right. So we've talked about the immune imprinting, we've talked about the fact that the multiple injections are suppressing the immune system. And the fact that it is those people for the most part who are getting sick over and over again, who have been multiple injected, their bodies are the primary factories of these new variants. Dr. Malone 26:23 That's right. So this old statement that we should all be afraid of the unvaccinated that they're the ones driving the pandemic, it's now abundantly clear that it's actually the highly inoculated that are putting the rest of the world at risk at this particular moment. Will Dove 26:41 So here's my final question. We know that if a pandemic had never been declared, if we just gone about our largest normal human race would have developed herd immunity to this virus within a few months of it coming out. Dr. Malone 26:54 I don't know. So that's, that's, we could argue about that. But go ahead. Well, I think the point I'm getting to is is yes, it's like all viruses, it would have evolved, there would have been new strains, but that would have come along. But it would have been a blip. That would have been something that we would hardly have noticed, we would have been like the other seasonal coronaviruses. Right. Will Dove 27:16 But now instead, we've got long COVID. And we could talk for a long time about what exactly that is. But let's talk about that we've got all these people have been multiple injected are getting sick over and over and over again, they're getting sick for long periods of time. They're going to produce new variants. And so my question is simply this. As long as we have within our population, these people who are being multiple injected COVID-19 is never going away. Dr. Malone 27:44 Oh, it's never going away. anyhow, it's in the population, just like the beta coronaviruses is. The force of infection, to bring it to the present the Chinese situation right now, where they're having these mass waves, as has happened in New Zealand, where under Arden, she was so proud that she kept the virus out for a long period of time. But the consequence of those kinds of zero COVID policies is that you're just postponing the inevitable instead of allowing this gradual increase whether we reach herd immunity or not, gradual increase in a population capability to resist the virus. What you do is you create, it's like a tsunami hitting a seawall, the seawall, keep the water back for a while, and then eventually it fails. And when it fails, the whole place floods, catastrophic. The pressure of this amount of virus now is such that it will overwhelm pretty much any defense. And there's nothing we can do about it, except live with it. And thank God, we have these amazing evolved immune systems that have been coexisting with virus pressure for millennia, right? That this this is yet another example of hubris, this belief system, that in the face of this kind of natural phenomena, we can out think it our technology is sufficiently developed, we understand enough about the immune system and biology that we can out guess something that has been going on as a dance between this kind of quasi species of virus. And mammals are human beings for millennia, that we can somehow outguess that with this artificial intervention. We we've been shown that now explicitly that that is not the case. And what I think it really demonstrates is the problem with this logic of centralized control, that a small number of technocrats have sufficient knowledge and capabilities to not only comprehend and produce an appropriate response, but to then propagate it all over the world in a harmonized fashion puts the entire species at risk. (30:12) Decentralization is our friend. Decentralization is how human beings have persevered over the centuries. This logic, that we should allow these corporatists, to control the world for their own purposes and their own agendas, and that they're sufficiently knowledgeable and developed to substitute literally in the title of the book Homo Deus, by Yuval Harare, Man is God, that they there is sufficient knowledge to substitute man for God or whatever you want to call it, his higher power or a consciousness that we all share is, is deeply, deeply arrogant. And the logic that they're trying to promote is that we now have sufficient knowledge to take control of human evolution and drive it forward and the vision the dark dystopian vision that Schwab and others wish to shape for us, is one in which we have the fusion of man and machine and the directed evolution of man, it is profoundly arrogant, and furthermore, technologically not feasible. The logic that we can genetically engineer humans is the flaw in all of this. Humans and other animals, and particularly mammals are highly evolved to prevent incursion into our genome from foreign nucleic acids. Otherwise, we would just be full of all kinds of junk, right? We would have plant DNA and all kinds of things in our genome because we're constantly eating it. We're surrounded by it, okay. Our cells have highly evolved mechanisms to keep it out. But somehow Harare thinks that we're going to be able to solve all this problem in the next few years, and readily genetically engineer humans. I can tell you, as somebody who cut his teeth spent decades in the gene therapy space, trying to come up with technologies that can be used to cure pediatric inborn errors of metabolism. It certainly seemed like a noble cause when I was 28, to try to figure out ways to cure cystic fibrosis, and muscular dystrophy and all the other inborn children, errors of metabolism in children. But it doesn't work. The technology is not there. And it has this fundamental flaw the immune system, you know, because the immune system doesn't know that the new gene is the good gene that it only knows that it's a different gene. And if that gene is expressing a different protein in a cell, it will attack it and kill it. That's the T cell function. And so we have Mr. Harare, arrogantly saying, well, we will be programming humans immune responses. We've seen how that goes. We must resist these people. They are barking mad. They're crazy. They have no idea what they're talking about. Technically, these books that are been put out The Great Reset and Harare's books are incredibly naive. But it reveals the hubris and the only thing that is supporting these people is we have these power brokers, you know, Larry Fink and BlackRock, for example, King Charles, and these leaders that believe that they have the right and the knowledge to impose on all of us and shape this future for us, this dark transhuman, Fourth Industrial Revolution future, and they have no clue about what they're really talking about. And are you willing, you and your audience, I know you you aren't willing. But are the listeners willing to become indentured servants in a world managed by the same jokers that have created this huge global fiasco? Because they've proved over the last three years that they are incompetent. Are you willing to give up your future and that of your children, to let these people have their way with you, and to live in a world in which you will own nothing and be happy it because they own everything that is the model, is one in which control of property and assets becomes more centralized. And we all exist in a business model that's basically rent based rent seeking behavior, in which we pay a fee. And they allow us to have whatever the asset is, for whatever duration of time they believe that it is appropriate for us to be using it. And when they think that we no longer need to have that asset our Tesla or whatever, then they will pull it away and give it you know, transfer it to the next poor soul that has to pay rent for it. That's the business model behind the this famous statement, you will own nothing and be happy. Will Dove 35:21 Dr. Malone, thank you very much for your book for your comments for your time for this interview. As you summed up there, at the end, we are facing this tyrannical totalitarian attempt to take over all of us to control us all. And the answer is simply refuse to comply. Just don't do it. And folks, I don't want to give you the impression that Dr. Malone's book is saturated with science, it's going to be very difficult to understand. I focused part of this interview on that one chapter because I felt it was incredibly important to understand the reasons why you've all been hearing this; that it's the multiply-vaccinated people who are flooding the hospitals. And if you understand some of the science behind it, that gives you a tool to convince people to stop taking the shots, which is the best thing they can do to protect themselves and all of us because that is a form of refusing to comply. The book is out today, December 6 in paper. It's been out in digital format for a while now. I urge you to read it. Dr. Malone, thank you. Dr. Malone 36:24 Thank you so much for your time.