Will Dove 0:00 Women’s sport is under attack by the woke left. Men in women’s locker rooms. Men who ‘identify’ as women playing in women’s sports. Boys playing on girl’s teams. Linda Blade is the founder of the ICFS, the International Consortium on Female Sports, and she’s right here in Canada, one of the world’s most heavily affected countries. Linda was a competitive track and field athlete and coach and has a Doctorate in Kinesiology. She is also the co-author of the best selling book Unsporting: How Trans Activism and Science Denial are Destroying Sport. In this interview, Linda reveals how widespread the practice of allowing biological men to undermine women’s sport has become, and the fact that the agenda goes back much farther than most of us realize. She provides facts and statistics to demonstrate how unsporting it is to allow men to compete against women. And she makes the very valid point that it is the woke left who accuse the right of being misogynistic, who are in fact practicing what Linda refers to as ‘progressive misogyny’ by excluding biological women from being competitive in their own sports. Will Dove 1:34 Linda, welcome to the show. Linda Blade 1:37 Thank you, Will. I appreciate it. Will Dove 1:38 Now, you're a professional, you've been a competitive athlete, you've been-- you've been a coach, you're a best selling author on this subject. And when I was watching one of your other interviews, I was surprised to find that this goes back longer than I thought I thought this was just the last two or three years who were seeing all this, but you made reference to this going back as far as 2014. So could you please give our viewers a bit of a summary of how the trans activism has been poisoning women's sports for almost a decade now? Linda Blade 2:06 Yeah, well, it's actually goes even further than that, because the very first time that it came on scene in women's sports was the International Olympic Committee, allowing transsexuals, people who had gone under surgery to participate. Officially, they made that rule in 2003. And so then there was a bit of a decade of transsexuals trying to compete with women, not that many, but there were some noted cases. And then it was those guys complaining that they had no testosterone because they had, you know, that they had undergone the surgery. So they were castrated, and they had castration levels of testosterone till then, they were asking the one notable person in Canada, Kristen Worley was a cyclist and, and this person who was male born but identified as a woman, and was a transsexual, wanted to have a special exemption. So Worley could take testosterone as a, like, as a supplement, because obviously, a male body needs testosterone. So was even asking for testosterone, keeps competing at a women's sports, it might it's mind blowing. And so that person sued everybody included the International Olympic Committee. And that was one of the factors that led the IOC to having a rule by 2015, that, Oh, maybe we'll just let the male self identify and only have to take their testosterone down to maybe 10 nanomoles per liter, which was still many times higher than the top rating, rates of the women. Will Dove 3:40 I'm sorry, I have to jump in here because this, I know a great deal about body chemistry about testosterone. Linda Blade 3:47 Yes. Will Dove 3:48 Now, some people mistakenly think testosterone is a steroid. No, it's a male hormone. But... Linda Blade 3:52 Right. Will Dove 3:53 My understanding is that if female athletes inject testosterone that falls under the same rules as as... Linda Blade 4:01 Doping. Will Dove 4:01 Yeah, as taking steroids. Linda Blade 4:04 Doping. Will Dove 4:05 Right. It's an unfair advantage. What you're telling me is the IOC ruled that it's okay for a trans woman and let's use the right word here, a man who has been Linda Blade 4:17 A man Will Dove 4:18 ...to do this, to take testosterone, but not for female athletes to do it, the same athletes this person is competing against. So now that given this person a double edge Linda Blade 4:28 Yeah, and, and now Will Dove 4:30 ...male, and they're allowed to take testosterone supplementation. Linda Blade 4:32 And, and then they said, well, why should we make them, why should we have the surgical requirement and then give them a special exemption to take, take testosterone? So let's just let them self identify without surgery, and just make them reduce their testosterone down to a certain level and then we'll let them be called women and, but none of that was anywhere close to be like what is the experience of a woman is as a female athlete and being tested and monitored, and having a much lower testosterone level and obviously different kind of body. It, it.. the whole thing was ridiculous. But the 2014, the year 2014 that you referenced was the one, just the one, you know, where it exemplified a male beating up a woman in the ring, which was Fallon Fox, the MMA fighter who did not identify or did not sort of reveal who they were when they got into a ring, MMA fight with a female, Tamikka Brents. And the male [unintelligible], crushed her skull, like her orbital, and cracked, actually crushed the orbital, cracked the skull, this woman who, Tamikka Brents said she'd, had fought all kinds of women, she's never felt that kind of force before, obviously, then it came to light after the fact after she was bloodied and beaten. And, you know, skull cracked that, oh, by the way, that was a male that you were fighting. And that was just in a professional sport. But this is how it was starting to creep into society, because gender ideology had been taught in universities, and started picking up momentum in the 90s. And then in the 2000s, it was whispered that various guys were doing, were making the transition. And then the sport policy was kind of coming along with it. And so it was basically all basic social contagion. And the shame of the International Olympic Committee is that they are supposed to uphold a very fair standard, standard for fairness, and safety in women's sports. And yet, they just crumbled, they were the first organization to crumble. So when I became president of track and field in Alberta, and I found out about all this in 2018, as President, I had to go to national meetings where they were proposing a policy that said, like, in Canada, was even worse, like you don't even have to, a man wouldn't even have to reduce his testosterone, he could just say one day I'm a, I feel like a woman today. And going to a woman sport, this is what the Canadian Center for Ethics of Sport was telling everybody to do. And I'm looking at this policy as president of Alberta, track and field. And I'm saying, guys know, like, you we know from our records, that men have a huge advantage. And just because you lower you know, might be player don't even have to lower testosterone, just because you declare one day that you happen to feel like you're a woman that day. And then they can go on and compete as a man in another sport, or another day as a man. And then a woman, like the kinds of things that were being proposed within Canada was way worse than even the Olympic Committee. But when I went back to see well, I thought, well, I'm gonna go back and report this to the International Olympic Committee that had us doing this. And then when I looked at the IOC policy, it was the same madness. And I thought, oh, my goodness, we're so behind on this, everybody's behind. They did this behind closed doors, policy by stealth. Nobody knew about it until these guys start showing up in women's... Will Dove 8:14 Linda, before we go on to, and I would like to get you to give some more specific examples in a few minutes. Before we go on, there's a really important question that has to be asked. And yes, I'm gonna have to give you a little bit of background on myself to ask this question. Please bear with me, because I'm going somewhere here. Most of you who watch my show for a while you know that I've been a fitness nut my whole life, [unintelligible] muscular. To give you that, while I've never been a competitive athlete, when I was in my late 40s, I went to a sports clinic, one of those clinics where they put you on a treadmill, they hook you up to the oxygen machine... Linda Blade 8:46 Sure. Will Dove 8:46 They test your level of fitness. And when the test was over, they told me the only people fitter than I am, were Olympic athletes. So I do have some idea of the level of dedication that you require to become a competitive athlete. But now here's my point. I'm now 57 years old, I can still benchpress 350 pounds. I went and looked up the Olympic records for weightlifting for women. Now let's say hypothetically that I lost my mind tomorrow and decided to transition. I let them mutilate me. I let them pump me full of hormones. But the studies have shown that as long as I keep training, I am unlikely to lose very much of that muscle mass. Linda Blade 9:27 Right. That is what studies have shown. Yeah. Will Dove 9:27 Right. 57 years old with the strength that I have, I could go to the Olympics, compete against women half my age and destroy them. Linda Blade 9:40 Yeah, yep. Will Dove 9:41 And so I have to ask these two questions that come out of that. The first one is, as an athlete, former athlete yourself. As somebody who's very concerned with this and better understand the level of commitment, the years of training it takes to become competitive as a woman. Linda Blade 9:59 Yep. Will Dove 10:00 Isn't this incredibly insulting to have... Linda Blade 10:03 Absolutely. Will Dove 10:03 ...these boards allow a man to come in and take away from women, the medals that they deserve, medals they have earned? Linda Blade 10:12 Yeah. Will Dove 10:12 Because as I just demonstrated, I could go into at, you know, if I suddenly transition, I could go to women's Olympics at 57 years of age, and I could win. Linda Blade 10:21 You could. Will Dove 10:22 jThis is insane. Linda Blade 10:24 Yeah, and so it's the beta males who don't have any respect for society, or the rules of sport. The guys who never win in the male competition, like we just saw this past weekend with, with Anne Andres from Alberta, and the Women's Powerlifting set all kinds of natural records this past weekend in the women's division, this this person, male born and now identifies as a woman and whatever, you know, just without any evidence of even reducing testosterone, any anything, this person suddenly walks away with all the national records. And the women, some of the women who were at that competition just basically decided that wasn't even worth competing, because I mean, it's not fair. And yet the Canadian Powerlifting Union goes nope, no, nothing to see here. Our policy is like, we're all inclusive, we're all nice, we're friendly. Well, it's not nice. It's insulting, as you say. It's not nice at all. It's absolutely abusive towards women. And yes, you're right. Women spend years training, especially when it comes to Olympic level athletes. And truthfully, it's even deeper than that for me, because I know the history. I know that, for example, the first time women were allowed to be in the Olympics was 1900, it was the Second Olympiad in some sports like basketball, and whatever, and sailing and golf for, you know, was a few sports. And then by 19-, it took till 1928 to even allow women to be in track and field, which was nice for, but it wasn't until 1984, Will, that women were allowed allowed to do the marathon. Every single time that women had wanted something we'd had to wait decades, we'd have to, we have to have panels and reviews and and all these heads, and then oh, well, maybe a couple Olympiads down the way you can add that event to our roster. And yet, when these male born athletes, they come in these men, they just want to compete with women, and like, bingo, overnight. We had to wait, wait 84 years to compete, and as women in certain events, in fact, even longer in pole vault. And yet, a guy comes along and he wants something and he just gets it overnight. Like the one thing they should have done at least and stay consistent to their method of including new categories in sport and entities. What you should do is have a long term study on, okay, if we reduce testosterone, and we do this, you know, whatever, does it make it even, does it does it level the playing field, that study should have been done long before you make a rule allowing a male to come into a women's sport. But of course, their whole rule now, the IO- the International Olympic Committee, and their latest latest rendition of it in 2021 was basically like, No, our starting position is that somebody should be able to identify and then it would be up to the women in whatever particular sport or competition to prove that the man has a disproportionate competitive advantage, like after the, so what you do your whole competition, the guy walks away with the medal. And now we're supposed to advocate for years why we need that medal back, like, whenever it's a whole thing has been flipped on its head. And you know, that would never have happened if it was in a men's cater- category. And I have an example as to how that happens. We have like, for example, one of the arguments is well, you know, maybe up until a certain age because puberty is the biggest difference. Maybe before puberty, boys should be allowed to compete with girls. No, we know that even little boys have an advantage over little girls. It's not as extreme. But we do know, and we don't want to discourage little girls from being in sport. And so when you look at it, so let's say let's take take running, for example. So in running men have a 10 to 12% advantage over women, which is not as big as weightlifting, because upper body strength and power is a lot more and weightlifting is like 40 to 65%. But in running, it's okay 10 to 12 which is still huge, because the difference between the last guy in the first heat and the gold medal and Usain Bolt, 100 meter is like, you know, point 5%. So it's it like 10% or 12%. still huge. But anyway, so maybe little boys are then 4% better than little girls which is about right about four, three, four or 5% better than little girls. And so people are saying, well, now that it's being sort of, you know, exposed that these males, men have so much greater advantage even after they do some sort of testosterone mitigation, there's no changing their advantage. Now they say, well, he, but maybe, some sports are going well, maybe just puberty after puberty, we'll let the little boy self identify. But anyway, my point is this back about 2019, I'm sure some of your listeners will have heard of the Nike Vaporfly running shoe. And the Nike Nike Vaporfly running shoe was given only to the marathon runners, the runners of the Nike elite team, and it had a special carbon platform that gave it a really good rebound off the ground. And it was, it turned out, and people started noticing, only the Nike runners of the marathon were setting new records. And nobody else was. So in the men's division, they had to pause immediately and study the shoe. And sure enough, whoever wore that shoe improved by 4%. So the shoe had a 4%, gave a person a 4% competitive advantage. And that would stop immediately that the shoe was outlawed. Why? Because it was giving some men an advantage over other men. But when I say a little boy has a 4%, same percentage, 4%, for the running shoe against men. And that was stopped immediately. When I when I say well, a little boy has a 4% advantage over a little girl, oh well that's not that large, that's okay, let girls suck it up. Like that double standard in every way that you look at this, as you said, you used the word, Will, it's insulting. And it's almost unbelievable for me, because I've been in sport, obviously longer, like I'm 60 years old now. And I mean, I started when I was 12. So I, over the years I've been in sport, you know, it's just, I don't know, I feel like why am I spinning? This is the fifth year now I've been arguing that men shouldn't be in women's sports, like how many how much time needs to go by where we have to keep arguing this point, which is so ridiculous. I want to move on. But I can't. Will Dove 17:16 And that leads me to my second question that came out of the illustration that I gave earlier. What if I transitioned, decided to compete? Linda Blade 17:24 Yeah. Will Dove 17:25 These, these boards, the IOC, the boards here in Canada that are deciding these, that are allowing these and, once again, I'll use the right word, men, and... Linda Blade 17:34 Yeah. Will Dove 17:34 ... not call them trans. They're men competing in women's sports. How many of those people on those boards are themselves former athletes? Linda Blade 17:44 Quite a few and in fact even [unintelligible] for women, female, I've... like the problem is people are so afraid to tell the truth, because this woke ideology, and I will call it, Will, because it's ridiculous. It's left wing. It's ridiculous. It's it's like the left going too far. Okay, when right, right wing people go too far. Okay, maybe it is fascism and nazism. But when the left goes too far, it's definitely woke. And it's ridiculous. And it's very misogynistic towards women. And so basically, because of Trudeau and because of, you know, all of the institutions right now are trying to force this ideology. And it is an ideology. It's, basically, it's bordering on a religion. How can you believe a man can be a woman like, it's a religion, and so you're, you're pushing this religion, in schools, in sports, in in the government bureaucracies. Nobody wants to say the truth. Nobody wants to say this isn't working. Nobody wants to say this isn't true. Everybody wants you to believe that all the people in power want you to believe that if a man says he is a woman, he's a woman. And it's like, you know, seriously. It... we have never, ever in the history of sport, used religion as a as a criteria for setting sport policy. Like, can you imagine how ridiculous it would be to say, [unintelligible] of everybody sign up for a race, okay, all the Jews will be over here, all the Muslims over there, all the Christians, like we're going to run on the basis of what religious dogma or religious ideology we're following. And yet somehow this is supposed to be perfectly fine. To say that this particular belief system helps us helps guide us into deciding which event or which category a person belongs. It's, it's so preposterous and in the end, we use the word insulting to sport itself because sport, the whole beauty of sport and it was part of the Olympic ethos and the beauty of sport is that you could take people of different ideologies, religions, races, all these different people with different backgrounds, different experiences. You take all those philosophical differences, you park them on the sidelines. And you run against each other with their bodies and on the basis of pure athletic talent. So even philosophically, the Olympic Charter is being undermined by the Olympics themselves. Like, it has to be an ideology. In in some ways, you almost have to say, the ideology is so strong that it's causing even the Olympic executives themselves to undermine their own charter to do this. And so when I say that to you is the reason people don't speak out, the people, the reason people keep wanting to push this, there's money involved. There is, er-like, people's reputations are at stake, if anybody starts telling the truth, they cancel you. That's why there's only one female athlete on Team Canada right now only one in all of the country. A person who's actually still actively competing April Hutchinson in powerlifting, who's willing to speak out. All the other women, even though they're now... they know it's not fair, when you talk to them privately. They all say, 92%, we did a survey, 92% of them don't agree, but nobody dares to say anything more. Nobody. Everybody's afraid. Will Dove 21:16 I have to ask, then, what are they afraid of? Because, and I know I'm harping on this folks, and I'm sorry if I am, but I am very passionate about this, I've been passionate about fitness my whole life. I again, you know, 41 years now, of hitting the gym anywheres, between four and 10 times a week, depending on what I was doing. I understand a level of commitment here. And by the way, that that's a small commitment, compared to what Olympic athletes will do for years to reach that level of skill of fitness, of proficiency at their sport. Linda Blade 21:49 [unintelligible] Will Dove 21:50 And now we've got these committees who just [unintelligible] ripping up all of that hard work. Linda Blade 21:57 Yep. Will Dove 21:58 What could these women possibly be so afraid of that they're willing to allow that to happen? Linda Blade 22:06 Well, put yourself in a in the place of a young woman, let's say, okay, I'll use my sport track and field. Okay, so pick a pick an event, 100 meter sprint Will Dove 22:15 Okay. Linda Blade 22:15 And let's say, okay, so she trained hard. And she, she runs her natural, you know, goes to the national champion ship. And let's say there happens to be a male and a lady next to her and wins. And it lets in it hasn't happened in candidate that way for that event. But what if at the end at the finish line, she's interviewed, and she says, Well, this wasn't fair, I just got beat by a man. She would be never be on the net selected to the national team. Likely, she would lose sponsorships. And athletes are already on the borderline poverty and almost are small. We only hear about the really, you know, very, very elite athletes that make millions but but I would say 99% of athletes are on the edge of, you know, poverty. Will Dove 23:08 Another thing that people need to understand is you don't get to the Olympics training around a 40 hour a week job? Linda Blade 23:14 No, no. Yeah. You know, like with me, when I was training for the Olympics, I had, I was working on my master's degree because I needed to make some sort of living, I always said you can do two things, well, not three things. So if you're going to be in university, you have to be in university, maybe have a scholarship and train while you work and train, or you work and go to university, but you can't, you can't do three things really well. So I was lucky to get like, in my master's degree, when I was working and training for the national team, thankfully, I was, I got a NCSA scholarship at University of Saskatchewan, I was a good student, so that I, I worked really hard as an undergrad have a good grade, so I got an academic scholarship, which allowed me to train so I would get up and I would train like an hour, and then more like, go for an hour run in the morning, I would do some studying and I go into the university, then around middle of the day, I do another workout, and then do some more studying. And then afternoon, evening, I'd do a third workout for another two or three hours, and then work on my thesis at night. And like there was it was just every hour of my day was accounted for. And yet, if I didn't keep up my grades as well, and didn't keep that scholarship. I wouldn't eat, you know, like, and you need to eat and athletes like energy management. So this is one of the things as a sport performance professional, the biggest, one of the biggest factors in success is energy management. And I mean, I guess that goes for countries too, but I mean all levels of achievement and in all different fields. Energy management is huge, like talent management, energy balance, and when and the timing of when you put in that energy and when you spend your energy, because energy is like dollars for athletes. So, if you're going to go to the shopping mall, if you're going to spend two hours, that's energy dollars you're paying out and I, when I'm training athletes, I like I'm trying to help them understand that, that there are moments where you insert your energy and there are moments we have to be very careful, like, where are you spending that energy, those energy dollars. So, I mean, so many of these athletes are so poor, that they're, they're trying to get good nutrition, but they're eating Kraft dinner, because there is like, there's only so much energy, there's only so much time. And, you know, so they, you know, it's it's tough. And so this girl, back to the 100 meter sprinter, if she would say anything, first of all, all the other people on Instagram, the woke people would be canceling her profile. She... in the old days before Twitter, before Elon Musk took over Twitter, you'd get kicked off Twitter even for saying some stuff, you know, like men are, men are, women had been kicked off Twitter in the past are saying men aren't women, that literally and and you still will be cancelled by someone or basically an athlete needs to have a following to get some sponsorships. So they would shut you down on an on social media, you your whole governing body would would penalize you probably not send you on the trip, not give you a national team berth. Probably not, like your sponsors would run away because there's no more, once you can't be visible because you've been canceled, nobody wants to sponsor you anymore. Young women, you who are participating competing right now have every reason to not speak because there is no advantage for them to do it. In any event, they're all hoping and I can tell you this, 'cause I talk to them privately. Every single girl is holding her breath right now hoping a boy or a man will not self identify into her particular game competition. She does not want to have to speak out. And so one of the reasons I speak out, Will is because I can, because I'd had my turn. Like I don't need, you know, even if even if they take my coaching license away or something. I'm okay. I've had my turn. I've had my unwilling to, unable to, and I've had the experiences to speak honestly about science. I have my PhD in human biology, and kinesiology. And I've been a president I, program manager and like all these things, if it's if I can't speak, who will speak and so there are key people like me, who have chosen to speak out and not fear the council crowd because, and you know, frankly, I think it's just because I can't stand it. I had my whole life. I am grateful for the opportunities that I got through sport, every single thing about me right now would not have happened, every good thing in my life would not have happened if it hadn't been for I was lucky enough to be talented. I was a little kid grew up running around, my parents were religious missionaries in Bolivia and South America, bible translators. I was, I had nothing, we were, it was like a vow of poverty. At least I could run. And when I came back to Canada, I mean, I got an NCAA scholarship, you know, my whole life has been changed because I had talent in sport. And I was fortunate to be able to have every way along every step on the way enough support to keep going and enough chances at winning, to keep going. And you know what, like, I just can't, I can't fathom, like how in the world can I have advantage have gained all the advantages from sport, and not speak up now? Right. And yet, you have somebody like Megan Rapinoe, who's the US Soccer player, national team player, she literally calls people like [unintelligible] and thinks men should be perfectly welcome if they're trans in sport. She got all her advantages through the US system, which part of me was part of my journey went and went through the NC2A on a scholarship. I mean, all of all of the things that some of these women have had have a pain in their life, because of sport. And then it's like and people use this term all the time now I can rap and I was pulling up the ladder behind her like she climbed the ladder, and now she's pulling it up and saying, well, the women don't have don't need the same opportunities [unintelligible]. And so there have to be there have to be people speaking. I mean, I'm s-, you know, I'm here. I'm not even sorry, I'm I'm here because I have to, because I'm compelled to I can't I can't not speak. Will Dove 29:49 And if I understand your answer to my earlier question correctly about why these women are not speaking out... Linda Blade 29:53 Yeah. Will Dove 29:53 What you're telling me is that if they do, the sport that they love so much that [unintelligible] thousands and thousands of hours of their lives into is going to be taken away from them. Linda Blade 30:03 Yeah. It'll be punished. They'll be punished. And I mean, you see it all the time you see it everywhere, people are punished. Like, look at Jordan Peterson himself. Like, I mean, he spoke up because of Bill C-16, which is part of the problem with [unintelligible] Canada too, because everybody's trying to follow Bill C-16. But when he speaks out, even he's still to this day as famous as he is, his professional associations, like all the, you know, psychologists of Ontario, I mean, they're trying to pull his license. I mean, if it happens to people like that, some little girl's just gonna get squashed like a bug. I mean, seriously. Will Dove 30:42 Yes. And that's, I think we need to get back now to some of these specific instances. You told us earlier about the 2014 boxing match... Linda Blade 30:48 Yeah. Will Dove 30:49 ...where this poor woman had her skull crushed. Linda Blade 30:51 Yeah. Will Dove 30:52 And then this was a case where it wasn't revealed until later, she was fighting a man. Linda Blade 30:56 Right. Will Dove 30:56 But we've had a number of high profile cases now of trans women, men... Linda Blade 31:02 Yeah. Will Dove 31:02 ...openly competing in women's sports, and win it. Linda Blade 31:04 Yeah, yeah, like Lia Thomas on state and NCAA swimming. That was in 2021, Lia Thomas, he started competing, that fall for University of Pennsylvania. And then that whole season, so culminating in the NC2A championships in March of 2022, Lia Thomas won the national championship, and I mean this is a six foot four man, swimmer who had been, you know, ranked really low in the men's NC2A. But he emerges the women's champion and, and when the women on that team, this is where Riley Gaines you know, in the state, she's been speaking out lately and very famous now. When the, she was part of the group that had to compete against Lia Thomas at the 2022 NC2A final. I mean, she was even, they were even forced to dress in the change room with this naked male, like, all of genitalia intact, everything like, and they and the people who were on his team, Riley wasn't on his team, but the women at the University of Pennsylvania who had to tolerate this all year, having this man in their locker room as they were dressing and changing and you know, it was basically indecent exposure, and it should have been against the law. He should have been, he should have been arrested. Will Dove 32:27 I believe Riley was 16 at the time, was she not? Linda Blade 32:31 Well, Riley tied, well, no, Riley was, you know, you mean 16 years of age? Will Dove 32:38 Yeah. Or is Riley the one who spoke up for the young girl who was, was being... Linda Blade 32:42 Yeah, she, she spoke out. Will Dove 32:42 And I can't remember names... Linda Blade 32:43 So Riley... Will Dove 32:43 So Riley was the one who spoke up. I can't remember the name of the young girl but the young girl who was being exposed to this was 16 years old. Linda Blade 32:48 Yeah. Yeah. So this, this has come to light after because of Riley speaking up. But Riley was in, she's collegiate. She was in her 20, early 20s. She, that was her last year collegiate competition. But when, you know, when, but she, you know, when it turned out in the one race that Lia didn't win, Riley, Riley was competing with Lia Thomas, and I think they both got fourth or something. I can't remember what place but they tied exactly to the hundreds. So they both had the people in the NC2A who are woke, who then had to decide, does the woman, does the female get the trophy or the medal? Or like there was a trophy for their plate? So does, what does she get the medal or does he get the medal or the trophy? And they told her well, Lia's gonna get the trophy for the purposes of the photo op, and you're gonna have to get yours in the mail later. And because they wanted to profile, look at us, NC2A, how woke we are, how wonderful, how inclusive we are. We're gonna give this man you know, this trapped woman the trophy. So she had reason to be really angry, of course, but then the women who were on the team all year dealing with it, University of Pennsylvania, ideally said, Don't you dare say anything, if you say anything, you will, we will, you'll probably never get a job, we'll make sure you never get a job. And you'll get kicked off the team. And you know, what? Why do you go to an Ivy League school and you want to get a job and a good job and the women were being basically, you know, told and threatened by the Ivy League and the University of Pennsylvania if they said anything, they would be punished severely. And they were told in a meeting just the women, this is going to happen, you're gonna have this man in your team and he's going to be dressing with [you in] your dressing room. And, and they were told all on top of that, if you have a problem with accepting this naked man in your locker room, come to us and we'll give you counseling to deal with it. Will Dove 34:54 I am shocked. Linda Blade 34:59 That's when, you know... Will Dove 35:00 That leaves me speechless. I'd, I, I'd... Linda, I want to ask, do you know, at present in Canada, how many men are competing in women's sports, roughly? Linda Blade 35:11 We don't know. On the national level, not that many only because I think some of our national sports, they'll know that, in some sports like swimming, now with swimming, track and field and rugby, on the international level, they they have to meet certain standards and the national teams in Canada know or the National Sports Canada know, at our Olympic sports, know that there's a tricky road ahead if you will let that male go through. But I mean, I think it's just a matter of time, because I know, for a fact, because I didn't see it on the ground, pr... at the provincial level, there are lots of young boys in girls' sports. And we're not allowed to talk about it. Will Dove 35:57 And that's my concern, Linda, because if we allow this to continue... Linda Blade 36:01 Okay. Will Dove 36:01 ...where, where's the motivation for women to go into competitive sport gonna come from because [unintelligible] defeated by a man, what's the point? Linda Blade 36:09 Well, and then and it's perfect that you would say that because the first global sport that had to deal with it in 2020 was World Rugby, because, of course, the danger of having a man collide, you know, with, an interesting thing about rugby that I didn't know until I was following that case, is apparently in rugby, well, the referees have a certain level of liability. So if you're not, if something happens on the field, that referee on the field can be liable for a bad collision and an injury. So the referees were starting globally to not want to referee any more any games because if there was a man on the pitch with a woman, that could be extremely dangerous, and of course, the ch... and we know like, the chances of serious head, neck and back injury goes up maybe like 30% or higher, when there's even one male body on the pitch with in a women's game. So the so the World Rugby had to make a decision and say, in elite women's rugby, which is their, you know, World Rugby, just governs elite women. So in elite, in the world rugby venues, no male, no male born person in any women's competition. But when they said that, they still wanted to virtue signal and say well, but for the for the, you know, recreational and national and sub elite levels, self ID, it's up to the individual country. And so the Canadian rugby union, rejected the world rugby's ruling and still allows men to compete with women even though we spent five years where our board working on concussion protocols, like concussion, wasn't wasn't concussion the big thing, Will? Like, until yesterday, concussions were a big thing that we're supposed to worry about. Will Dove 37:59 What about what about that case that I think it was all about, but six, eight months ago, where they had two trans hockey teams, trans women playing as trans men, I don't know when, was severely injured after being [unintelligible] by a man. Linda Blade 38:12 It's it's a no brainer. Will Dove 38:14 I think she lay on the ice for 17 minutes before they carried her off [on] the stretcher. Linda Blade 38:18 Yeah. And that's what happens because their, our bodies are different. We're different. Will Dove 38:22 Yes, men, and as you said, even even the beta males, forget about guys like me. Linda Blade 38:28 Yeah Will Dove 38:29 Testosterone levels mean those men have more muscle mass, they have greater bone density. Their bodies are just quite simply more resilient, tougher. And you run that into a woman... Linda Blade 38:43 Yeah Will Dove 38:43 ...it'd be a disaster. Linda Blade 38:44 It is like, it would be like, you know, a big dump, like a big huge dump truck hitting like a small little Volkswagen. Like it's, it's different. Like and actually now that I'm talking about vehicles, I like to use that analogy a lot. People will say, Well, you know, there's overlap some men aren't as good as some women [unintelligible]. But the point is, is that the point is that we have two designs, two completely different body designs, so it's not like when we see that men are stronger than women, I'm not saying they're that women are are worse aths, because the athleticism can be there for their category. So in other words, you'd never you know, you'd never mix let's take racing cars. Formula One is a kind of category because of the design and stock cars, NASCAR's are different and like, nobody says, well, that that's cars just somehow let's have a vehicle than the Formula One. No, they're just two completely different designs. So the point is that very fundamental first first first division of sport is between male female because the body is designed differently, it's a different design. So different design different category. And so people, you know, like I watched Egale Canada, it's like pro trans and and just trying to always find ways of saying how we should be inclusive in sport and allow man into women's sports. And they were pointing to, let's say, you know, like Paralympic sports or, you know disabled sports where you have like, amputees, you might have six or eight different categories of amputees competing against each other. Yeah, but that's not it. That's not, you know, like, that's not a good analogy, because in even in disabled sport, the first division is male, female, and then you have the different levels of amputation, right. So you can't get away from the fact that fundamentally, when you're talking about physical competition that involves human bodies, there are two distinct human designs, there's not a third, there are two distinct designs. And then you have age categories so you aren't gonna have a 20 year old compete with a 12 year old. So you have categories, starting with sex, then age, and then weight categories. And like, you know what I'm saying like, so you go into these divisions, to what I call stratification, stratified, stratified, and that allows more inclusive inclusion. Because if you let's imagine if you didn't have, let's say, age categories, well, only the the men in their prime would, you know, they beat the little boys and the older men. So the reason we have age categories is to allow more people to have a chance at winning, because you're within a band of fairly equivalent abilities, but they're still you're still trying to find the best person within that band. So but always, always, always, no matter what, age ,weight categories in boxing, or all these different things, designs, and auto racing, whatever. But in human bodies, the very first division is male and female, because there's only two types of human designs. And they'll, those are it. And so why are we trying to cross those boundaries? It doesn't make any sense. And it doesn't make sense from another point of view. We have in women, because, okay, kids are being indoctrinated in schools, in women's sports, we have people who are born female, so girls who want to identify as boys, we have girls who call themselves like they're teenagers, they found out this new shiny thing called non binary, I don't know what it's supposed to be just means you're different. You're special, I guess. But you don't want to have a, you don't want to be identified as a woman. Fair enough. All of those people will stay in women's sports, like, we have trans in our sport, and they happen to be female, who identify as men. So we can say, okay, as long as you're not doping, I don't care what you look like, you could have a shaved head, and you're still competing with me, I don't care. So the only, the only thing that's happening here is that the people who are male born and trans, they want to skip over magically to the women's division. Why? Obviously, because they know they have an advantage. Will Dove 38:44 Yes Linda Blade 38:59 And they want to be socially, somehow socially affirmed, fine, but I don't see the girls going over, the females who want to be, you know, identified as men, I don't see them going over to the male, they do everything, they can to stay in the women's sport. So we on the women's side, we're already dealing with trans in our midst. They're the ones the quiet ones who are female, and they don't want to, even though they want to be seen as men, they don't want to go to the men's side. Here's my point. If we allow trans women, which are male men who want to be identified as women, if we allow them to come into the women's category, we're also discriminating against the trans who are female. So it's not even it's not even a trans issue. It's a discrimination on the basis of sex against all kinds of identities on this side of things. Will Dove 44:07 Yes Linda Blade 44:08 Why not? And the point we want to make is let the men deal with the trends in their own midst. We're already dealing with trans in our midst as women. Let the men deal with the trans and just stay over there. Stay over there. I mean, you can, why not? Okay, if you're going to have a men's race, and one of the men happens to want to look like a woman. Let's run with that. That would be the most affirming thing you could do. Will Dove 44:32 Yes, and so in the end this, I think, brings us to the ICFS, the International Consortium on Female Sports, which you founded... Linda Blade 44:39 Yeah Will Dove 44:39 ...for the purpose of seeing to it that women compete against biological women. Linda Blade 44:47 Yes. And we don't care how they identify as long as you're not dopey, if you're born female. There has to be at least one category and sport that's female only. That's all our position is. We will advocate. And we have women groups. So what it was the concept was, we have groups in each in about 10 different countries now who are, say women's sports, like pro women, pro female sports groups. And we realized that we have to form a global consortium of the group. So it's it's not, it's not individual members in this consortium, it's actually an umbrella group of all the groups of different countries who believe that women should have a chance to compete against female only. And the reason we did that was, I don't remember, after the Tokyo Olympics in 2021, with Laurel Hubbard, the male weightlifter was lifting with the women. And of course, the International Olympic Committee had [unintelligible] and they looked stupid. And so, you know, immediately after the Olympics in July of 2021, they're going well, I guess, you know, our policy is, guess, you know, we have to tweak that a little bit. And, of course, all along the way, as they were developing the pro trans policy, they never consulted with female athletes or females at all. They just talked to the trans community. And so we were saying, we heard these interviews, that they [unintelligible], the IOC medical Commissioner, and we're like, Oh, great. They're going to review the policy. And then there was radio silence, but on, one of the women, I think was, say, Women's Sports Australasia in Australia, the Australian woman who is part of that group, she's a lawyer, and she she was tuning in to a podcast from university, or a seminar online from the University of Arizona. And noticed that one of the trans women hails from Can-, actually, Canada, Rachel McKinnon, now Veronica Ivy, the cyclist was bragging that he was going to consult consultation again with the IOC and like, so, so Katherine Deves, my colleague in Australia said when she wrote a letter to the International Olympic Committee and said, well, would it be possible this time to consult with women, about the categorisation in women's, and there were eligibility rules in women's sports, if you're consulting with this other sector, the trans competitors, why would you not consult with women also, and we could come to some understanding, at least argue our point. And the IOC sent a letter back saying consultations are closed. We've already talked to people like you. But I mean, there was no evidence. So what I did was like she shared that letter with me on email, and we're all and what enticed me was, I got all the groups from Spain and France and England and UK. I mean, USA, and all the groups on one email, and I said, we were told that IOC consulted with women, were you consulted? So I had two questions: were you consulted? And if you were consulted? What did you say? Because we want to know, what a certain group is saying on our behalf. Well, all of them said we weren't consulted. So the IOC lied to us, they probably went down the hall to their secretary just to say, Okay, I'll pick out a woman. And we'll just ask what she thinks. But the point is this. Women as a global entity, like category, it's 50% of the world's population, is so huge, the question is legitimate, who does represent the female voice? It's easy to find a representative for the trans community because they're small maybe. But who represents women? Really? I mean, if they ask Linda Blade to the table, do I represent women? Like, did they vote for me? Well, no, and so the point is this. We have to do due diligence as women as well, and say, Okay, we need a collaboration globally, of groups, and present ourselves as the voice, we are the voice because we are the most the biggest group of women who are pro sex space right, sex space, single sex sports, we are the group. So if you're going to consult that we belong at the table, because we represent 130,000 women, however many it is, if we don't do our job, and say we have a representative body, we're never going to be invited, Will, to the consultation about eligibility in our sport. And that became very, very clear 2021. So I mean, it was a no brainer. Of course, we have to create an international entity that advocates on behalf of women and girls, because there is none and in fact, beginning just in the nick of time because we finally announced officially our website our position icfsport.org. And when we did that, that was January of this year 2023. Within a week after that, we had to write a letter on behalf of this Canadian powerlifter. Rachel, I mean, April Hutchinson, April Hutchinson was, had, came to us and saying, Look, I need help, because I have, there's a man competing with us, and who identifies as a woman, but it's a male and the name of Anne Andres, and this person was cleaning up on all the metals and podiums, and I need to have help. So we were starting to write letters on April's behalf. And so it's helped tremendously because now the Canadian Powerlifting Union that was allowing this to happen, they are under extreme pressure now by the International Powerlifting Federation, because of us, writing letters, putting pressure on Canadian Powerlifting in Canada to align their rules with the international rules, which are more fair, they're not the [unintelligible], they still say, man has to get their testosterone down. I mean, we just think you're born male, you shouldn't compete at all. But nevertheless, the fact that we exist, has allowed us to be advocating now for women and girls in a in a unified way, in a way that we were not doing even two years ago, a year ago. So the IOC madness has forced us as women to get our act together and to be responsible for pushing back with the alternative idea, of course, which is sex based rights, single sex sport. But that, and I'm going further now, and I'm going to tell you what's happening in Canada. Because of Bill C-16, I realized none of the major political parties are standing up for women and girls either. And I realized this year, every four years the Conservative Party of Canada has their policy convention, and it's happening in Quebec City from September 7 to the ninth. And in a month, less than a month now. And so I engage the party with the party, because there's no chance that anything's gonna change with the liberals Trudeau, NDP. So basically, I thought, okay, let's give this a shot. And I went to my local meeting for the party, starting last September. And I became policy chair and I submitted, and we the way it works is you submit policy proposal that maybe the party can add to their platform, and mine had on women's saving and safety, safeguarding women's sports and spaces, is now going to be debated on the floor of the convention in about three weeks. Will Dove 52:37 That is action. Linda Blade 52:37 And that's how you have but you have to engage. Because if you don't get it, if there's not, if it's not in a political party platform, if it's not going to, there's no point in tweeting, I've been tweeting my brains out. But if you don't engage, and you don't get the law changed, nothing's gonna change in Canada. And we need to either we need to either repeal Bill C-16 completely, get it out of there, on the pronouns, and all that stuff, or we need to amend it to include sex based exemptions. We need to do something about that bill, because it's screwing women in sports. And in many other, in on it, like men are in women's prisons. Like I can't, I, can you get your brain around the fact there are male rapists in Canada that can self identify as a woman and be placed in a woman's cell? Like... Will Dove 53:28 I know, it's... Linda Blade 53:29 This isn't like, it's not just sports, it's everything. So my point is, if we don't, if you don't engage at the level where it's going to make any difference, I can talk till I'm blue in the face, but it's not going to change. So I'm trying to do the right thing at every point on the way to, to engage in the right level, where the thing can maybe be fixed. And that that's my commitment like that. That's worth my time. Will Dove 53:57 So I think you've answered the question that I was going to ask next, which is what can you do to support your efforts, to support women in sports? What you're saying is, get involved, get political, write letters... Linda Blade 54:09 Absolutely. Will Dove 54:09 ...to your MLAs. Tell them that we don't want this. Linda Blade 54:13 That's right Will Dove 54:13 This is... Linda Blade 54:14 what you're saying Will Dove 54:15 This is destroying women's sports, and we need to put a stop to it. Linda Blade 54:19 Yes Will Dove 54:20 And I think that suggestion that you've you made, and I heard, I was listening to one of your other interviews, and I think... Linda Blade 54:26 Yeah Will Dove 54:26 ...this is exactly the right way to do it. Because there needs to be a separate trans category. Linda Blade 54:33 Yeah, well, yeah. Will Dove 54:34 And there's the trans can compete against other trans but... Linda Blade 54:38 If they like and Will Dove 54:39 ...compete against women Linda Blade 54:41 Don't compete against women, there has to be one category that's female only, that what I would say is the thing that's happening now in some of the races, international and like the Boston Marathon and things like that, they are having a trans non binary category, but what they do is they split the winnings, prize money three ways, so the women get a certain amount of [unintelligible]. So so basically two categories now where men can win, and and women still get, like, so my point is, so the only way to resolve it is really have female only and open. Like, if you're like if a man and if a guy, person is a trans woman or like, I don't like to use that word, but a man who identifies as a woman, if if that person is so wants to compete, and it hurts their feelings to be called a man, then we call it the open category, and basically, what it should be is female only. And then anybody who, you could be a female who was wants identified as a man over there, you could be a man who wants identified as a woman over there. But the point in sport is, there is no person who is being brought into a category should bring with them a competitive advantage. So the key principle is absence of competitive advantage. So basically, female only, no doping. So if you want to identify as a male, do, but you can't take testosterone, no doping female, or open, which is anybody else, because anybody coming into the men's division is not bringing with them any competitive advantage. So you can still havea binary and you can still have the two categories, and it's completely inclusive. Will Dove 56:25 That's very smart. Yes, it makes [unintelligible]. Thank you. Linda Blade 56:28 So that's, but the only problem with that [unintelligible] there is that if it is a contact sport, you still shouldn't allow a female to go over there and get crushed. So if you're going to have, okay, so if you're gonna have a trans category, there has to be two current trans categories. There has to be male, female, male and in between females who are trans and males who are trans. See now what I'm saying? Will Dove 56:53 Yeah Linda Blade 56:53 Because they're different body designs Will Dove 56:55 Yes. And this is where I'm agreeing with what you said about the [unintelligible] to just women, and then there's an open category. Linda Blade 57:01 Yeah Will Dove 57:02 If you want to go into [unintelligible] open category Linda Blade 57:04 Yeah Will Dove 57:04 You, you said Linda Blade 57:05 Could be dangerous. Will Dove 57:06 We shouldn't allow women to do that. But I personally am in favor of adults making their own choices. If she's... Linda Blade 57:07 Well, that's it, but if it's a little girl Will Dove 57:10 ...on that same field with men who are going to crush her. Well, okay. You make it your choice. Linda Blade 57:17 But then the man who hurts her doesn't want to be responsible for that. Will Dove 57:22 And you have a good point there. You're right. Linda Blade 57:23 Yeah, yeah Will Dove 57:24 If I was competing in a contact sport, and I knew there was a biological woman on the other side. Linda Blade 57:29 Yeah Will Dove 57:29 Yeah. I'm gonna [be] pretty reluctant to hit her as hard as a man. Linda Blade 57:32 Exactly. And I think that's... Will Dove 57:32 [unintelligible] point... Linda Blade 57:34 Yeah. And also, men don't want those women in their locker room either. Will Dove 57:40 True. No, we do not. Linda Blade 57:41 So I don't think it's I don't think it goes one way where women are, oh wow there's a man in my locker. I mean, nobody wants the opposite sex in their locker room, because let's face it, if you go into the men's locker room, there's banter, there's talk, like, the people who are in the states and the NC2A, there's one known biological woman who identifies as a man in swimming and is in the, he's a diver. But I doubt he goes into the male locker room. And I know the mother of one of the male swimmers. I talked to her and she said, Well, my son says it's terrible, because that, you know, all of our natural conversation that happens in the men's locker room stops happening because she's sitting there. And we're all trying to be polite. And it's, it's very uncomfortable. It just, it's just not natural to have a person of the opposite sex in a single sex locker, either way... Will Dove 58:36 And that disruption of that conversation and, and the ladies watching, okay, I spent a lot of time in locker rooms. It's a it's a misconception that we sit there saying misogynistic things about women. Linda Blade 58:49 No, no, but Will Dove 58:50 And by and large, we don't talk about women. But the banter that goes on, that's team building. Linda Blade 58:55 Banter. Will Dove 58:56 And if you cut into that... Linda Blade 58:57 Right Will Dove 58:58 Now, you're breaking down the team structure. Linda Blade 59:01 Exactly Will Dove 59:02 That you're absolutely right. Men don't want women in their locker rooms. Linda Blade 59:06 No, no. Will Dove 59:07 Women don't want men in their locker rooms. Linda Blade 59:09 And that's why locker rooms in this country have to be single sex and if you want a gender neutral one, have a third one. But you shouldn't always have single sex locker rooms and bathrooms and one of the things that in the Conservative Party that the biggest resistance I'm getting, like most of them agree with me so far on this policy that I'm submitting. The one thing is everything. Well, what about the washrooms what about what about the washroom? like going to a third one if you're like, honestly, like, honestly, it we need to stand strong on this stuff. Because it's, it's creeping in and it's, it's not it's not healthy for our society to have to do to have to sort of pretend like we don't care or we we don't mind or, like it's, we need to just say I'm not comfortable with it and no, I don't want this Will Dove 59:59 And it, it's definitely not healthy for our children. Linda Blade 1:00:03 No Will Dove 1:00:03 because... Linda Blade 1:00:03 It's very dangerous because the predators are going in there now to with like, you know, now they said that the amounts of rape and assaults are happening on gender neutral bathrooms. Well, yeah, hell, you know what, hello, which you're going to have the worst of society take advantage of that. That's what you're doing. Will Dove 1:00:21 Yes. Now, Linda, you said something earlier in the interview that really stuck. I'd like you to expand on it because I thought it was a very perceptive comment. Okay, you said that these woke trans policies in sports are misogynistic, and woke, who would say, you know, oh, no, no, it's all the white males who are misogynist. We're trying to protect this. Please expand on that, what you said, Linda Blade 1:00:46 Well, it's hateful towards women like anytime you've been asked like, women are supposed to shut up and accept a six foot four naked man in their locker room? Who still has intact genitalia? Are you kidding me? How is that nice? How is that inclusive? The fact that women in this last weekend in that Manitoba, where the Western Canadian Powerlifting Championships would self exclude because there's a man competing with them. It's exclusionary, it's not inclusive. You're actually excluding women. It's, it's mind boggling how hateful this is to women, and little girls, and especially little girls now at the community level. I had fathers in BC here where I'm on vacation, telling me, my daughter had to play against a little boy on the other team in the soccer. Like, she's nine years old. She didn't understand why is why am I playing against the boy. And the boy scores five goals and they're humiliated. My daughter doesn't want to play anymore. This is happening under our noses, Will, in this country, it's hateful towards girls. And it's it's progressive misogyny. So Trudeau and all of his stupid wealth policies, whether it's Bill C-16, Bill C-4, it is hateful towards women and girls. It's not helpful. And it's the left going way too far. Way, way too far. And it's absolutely undermining the the Charter rights of women in Canada. And we have Charter rights. We are not allowed to be discriminated on the basis of sex. And what Trudeau did is absolutely foundationally, like Bill C-16 enforcing gender identity on everybody, the ideology, it's left wing progressive misogyny, that's all it is. It's hateful towards all of our women and girls. And the sooner we recognize that the I think the clearer the path forward will be that we have to reestablish sex based rights in this country, because it's part of the charter. Will Dove 1:03:00 And I have a final thought, and I'd like your opinion on. Linda Blade 1:03:04 Sure Will Dove 1:03:05 Black people. They were slaves for a long time, then there was segregation. And yes, black people stood up and protested against it. But the fact is, they didn't get equal rights until white people looked at the situation and said, what's being done to these people is unjust, we need to change it. And so the thought that I have had talking to you is that while we need the voices of everyone who will speak up, the most powerful voices should be men... Linda Blade 1:03:36 Yes Will Dove 1:03:37 ..looking at women's sports and saying what you're doing to these dedicated athletes is [unintelligible] unfair... Linda Blade 1:03:45 And to our daughters Will Dove 1:03:46 Powerful voices would come from male athletes who are in the same sport. Linda Blade 1:03:51 Yes, male athletes, but more than that, the male policy bureaucratic, you know, people who are in charge of running the sport need to need to grow a spine, and stand up as well, because we all have daughters that we care about. And sport is tremendously empowering, and what you're allowing to have happen, like one of the biggest advantages of sport for a little girl, and I was one of them, is that it teaches you, it gives you so much confidence, and you know what, you don't have to win to learn confidence. Like you have to learn how to lose gracefully and lose with confidence knowing if I if I try a different strategy, if I come back and do a different thing, or I will try harder. I'm going to maybe try to win again. And you know, it's it does. It's striking that since Title IX in the States, for example, where it was where women had to have equal treatment at sport, there then that millions of girls that came along after that and to the point where it even helped in the corporate sector. You realize, Will, that 95 percent of women who are in the executive suites of international multinational corporations, all had sports in their background. The empowerment of that is amazing. And men across this country who have daughters who care about your com- the competence of little girls through the experience of going to school, having single sex spaces, of having the confidence of competing against their own peers, without having, being cheated upon in sport, is, it, tremendously, very important, and the opposite of that is starting to happen with Trudeau's misogyny, because by having a, putting in a law where we all feel intimidated into to it being somehow inclusive, which is exclusive of girls, but by having allowing males to self identify into into women's sport, you're teaching something completely different than what most girls get out in sport, which is called learned helplessness, because literally you will learn to be helpless. And do we want our daughters to learn that? No, we don't. And so getting that viewpoint, and I would say like, Hey, case of the trans debate, I mean, black women are getting discriminated against almost more than white women in a way this, well, I would say equally, like in terms of like men coming in and beating women, I mean, it's not just happening to white girls. But the point is, what your point is, is that we need everybody's voice. They're saying no, including the male voice, I'm not going to exclude the male voice. And I will end on a story. When I first learned about this as president of track and field in Alberta and I was at a na- I was I told you, I was at the national meeting where I realized this policy was happening. And I took the then president out, of Athletics Canada out for dinner, and I said, I said, Bill, I said, you know this isn't right? Like, tell me explain to me, the behind the scenes pressure, like what's what, like, you know, what are our records of male, you know, that they're completely different, and the bodies are different? Why is this being pushed? Like, why are we doing this, and he wouldn't say anything. And, and I was trying to get at it in different ways. And he just kind of hands and hearts, and I said, Oh, I know what you're doing. You're afraid that we're gonna get sued by a trans trans identified male? And I said, But if that's true, Bill, if that's true, why do you not consider that there are many, many more women and girls who are going to be discriminated against who might turn around and sue? Like, why do you think you're safe? If it's just, if we're just allowing them [unintelligible] come in? Why do you think that safer than allowing him in and having all the possibility of all these women who come out with lawsuits because they were defeated fairly, and you go, and he said to me, girls wouldn't do that. So my point is, I think men think that if we're just if they just be polite, women will just tolerate it. And we'll just have a peaceful society, we won't disrupt anything. But you know, it's gotten to the point where it's just too too valuable a thing for them, just sex based rights and society as a whole and for confidence of women and girls to live their lives and thrive. And they're our sisters, our mothers, our daughters, like it's too important to be quiet. Like, you have to say something. Because it's the future of what kind of country do we really want? Do we want a country where well, bullies keep silencing everybody? Or do you want to say, No, we're gonna say what we think and what we mean, and what's fair. And we're gonna stick to the charter, right? Because even the Charter rights even cover the trans gender people that they do, because you're not supposed to discriminate against an ideology. And they have, they have an ideology. So like, I don't know why we had to have Bill C-16 in the first place, what let's get rid of it or amend it, but there has to be something that we do that we're not threatening, with jail time, somebody who just doesn't say the proper pronoun, like, that's, we're being muzzled. And it's, it's just, there's something wrong, and it has to be amended. It has to be fit somehow. And so that's kind of what I'm hoping to find out, really, in my current journey. Will Dove 1:09:23 Linda, thank you so much for sharing all this information with us for what you're doing with the ICFS. I genuinely hope that this interview is going to help more people to get involved. Linda Blade 1:09:34 Yeah. I don't... Will Dove 1:09:35 Contact your politicians, folks. Linda Blade 1:09:35 And parents on school boards Will Dove 1:09:39 And parents, school boards, yes Linda Blade 1:09:41 Yeah. Don't let them indoctrinate your children anymore. Tell them that, you know, sex is real, like biological sex binary, and it's real. And it's in that charter. Like, don't be afraid. Just say it. Go and tell them to stop telling lies to people.