Will Dove  00:00 A week ago, people around the world were celebrating a great victory. The WHO amendments to the International Health Regulations had not passed. The globalist mechanism for totalitarian control had been defeated. Except not.   Will Dove  00:17 Late, very late, on the last day of the 77th World Health Assembly, Saturday, June 1st, the amendments were ratified.   Will Dove  00:26 And it doesn’t matter that the vote was likely illegal, that they did not have two thirds of the members in attendance, any more than it matters that the WHO ignored their own rules in even voting on the amendments, as under Article 55 they were supposed to provide the full text of the amendments to the member countries on January 27th, four months ago. The full text was not provided until a few hours before the vote.   Will Dove  00:55 James Roguski is undoubtedly the world’s leading expert on the WHO Treaty and amendments.   Will Dove  01:02 In this interview, James clarifies many misconceptions. Such as the erroneous idea that the amendments will give WHO Director General Tedros Ghebreyusus the authority not only to declare a pandemic, but to dictate health measures such as lockdowns and mandatory vaccines to member countries. Such a clause was never in the amendments.   Will Dove  01:25 Are the WHO amendments and the international treaty, which was not ratified, a globalist control mechanism after all? Or are they simply the business plan of very wealthy people who want to use fearmongering, gain-of-function research, and the WHO’s authority to declare a pandemic as tools to further enrich themselves.  And if it’s the latter, how concerned about the amendments should we be?   Will Dove  01:55 The answer, as you will learn in this interview, is that we should be very concerned. But we are not without the tools to fight back. However, any successful campaign requires a full understanding of the enemy’s battle plan. This interview is nothing less than the battle plan of the globalists revealed.   Will Dove  02:25 James, it's a pleasure to have you back on the show. I wish it was under better circumstances. But it's good to have you here.   James Roguski  02:31 Will, it's always good to see and hear from you. Let's dive right in. Where do you want to start?   Will Dove  02:35 I want to start with what the heck happened last Saturday night, as you and I sit here on the Wednesday following the World Health Assembly 77th meeting, when everybody was saying up to last Saturday morning, that the amendments are dead, the treaties dead, and then late Saturday night, last day of the meeting, what did they do?   James Roguski  02:58 Well, I'll just make one correction on what you said, people are still saying that. Okay, and so here's what happened, short version and an adjustable expand on it.   James Roguski  03:09 Geneva time, in the evening, the World Health Assembly got together. They had their plenary session, and they failed to take roll call. They did not establish a quorum. And then they held up, you know, the document talked about the document of the resolution of the negotiated amendments to the International Health Regulations. And they asked everyone in the assembly, does anyone have any objections?   James Roguski  03:44 Boom! It’s adopted. Now, not quite, Nancy Pelosi, a thousand-page Bill, you know, you can read it after you sign it.   James Roguski  03:54 They didn't give us four months’ notice as they were obligated to do under Article 55, been reporting on that since October, when they told us they weren't going to. They didn't give us four weeks’ notice; they didn't give us four days’ notice. I don't even think they got four hours’ notice. I did get an opportunity, a couple of hours before they did that. They did post the document so people could read it. But they jammed it through.   James Roguski  04:20 You know, as expected, quite frankly, I think, you said that you figured that that would be what they would do. There's a whole lot of reasons around all of this. But anybody can print out the document, read it and see what it is, which is essentially a trade agreement that satisfied the nations who called for the negotiations back on December 1st, 2021. And what they said was, they want equitable access to pandemic related products.   James Roguski  04:58 It has always been about equity. Now a lot of people have been barking up a lot of wrong trees, a lot of red herrings have been cast about, oh, you know, this is because the WHO wants to take over the world and take over your national sovereignty, and invoke mandates, and lock downs and jabs and masks, and all that sort of thing.   James Roguski  05:20 Those have all been, at one point, the year and a half ago when they were originally released. I can see why people could have said that. But a review committee document back on February 6, 2023, pretty much put the kibosh on all of that. And because everything was kept so secret for a long period of time, these rumors and this misinformation, this fear mongering really grew and grew and grew.   James Roguski  05:54 I am pretty sure you and I talked about this, but I honestly don't remember when the last time was that we talked. I obtained a leaked version of the amendments back in March, and published and said, look, people, the review committee put the kibosh on all this crazy stuff. This is a money game. This is a trade agreement.   James Roguski  06:14 This is theft, taking money from wealthy nations, most likely, you know, in the United States, we just keep cranking up the $37 trillion debt, funneled it into the WHO's financing mechanism, to distribute around the world, to the people who want to play ball, to build out the Big Pharma industry to manufacture more drugs and jabs and diagnostic tools, which are - now I'm going to challenge you a little bit, we'll have some fun here.   James Roguski  06:48 They want these things to be global public goods. Is that a phrase? That's in your vernacular, global...   Will Dove  06:57 I can translate the doublespeak, if you want.   James Roguski  07:01 So, I will put you on the spot. But I'll just say what this is. A global public good is something that people can consume an infinite unlimited amount. And there will still be more for the next person.   James Roguski  07:17 I'll give you a couple of examples in my perspective, sunshine. Now it might be cloudy. But unless you're joking around with your friend at the beach, and you're standing in front of them so that they don't get any sun, you getting sunshine is not limiting the amount that's available to some other people on the planet. You could hyperventilate all you want, and there's still enough air for me to breathe.   James Roguski  07:43 You could go to the ocean and take bucket after bucket after bucket out of the ocean, and there's still enough water in the ocean for everybody else's needs. Same thing, maybe with grains of sand on the beach.   James Roguski  07:54 Tedros in, I believe, November of 2021, before this special session started. And they've said this many times, they want pandemic related products to be viewed as a global public good. Unlimited amount. You know, think Oprah you get a car and you get a car, right? You want a jab? Here you go, how many would you like? We got an unlimited supply.   James Roguski  08:22 The problem was, and I'll blame Canada for part of it. The Trudeau Government ordered up 400 million jabs for 40 million people. And other nations around the world were like, hey, wait a minute, what about us? How come you're taking up all the production? The United States, pretty much cornered the market on Run Death Is Near. And the nations are saying, hey, if those things are lifesaving, where's ours?   James Roguski  08:47 And so, the reason for these negotiations were not what everybody's been saying. The reason these negotiations were called for was not the WHO saying, hey, everybody, get in here, we're going to take over the world. It was the nations telling the WHO, look, you're a forum for all of the member nations. Can you please oversee these negotiations so that we come out of this with equitable access to pandemic related products?   James Roguski  09:17 Equity, equity, equity, equity, equity. Right? It's money.   Will Dove  09:23 The last time we discussed, in our last interview in March, there were some 70 countries that did not like the amendments because they weren't going to get a big enough share of the pie.   Will Dove  09:33 So, before we get into what was voted on these amendments as they were revised, somewhat.   Will Dove  09:42 I want to separate some facts from fiction because, as you and I were discussing prior to the interview, there's a lot of confusion still, about what exactly was approved and what wasn't. What was pushed through was the amendments to the International Health Regulations, the International Health Regulations that were established in 2005, but what was not, because here's where the confusion comes in, a lot of people refer to those international health regulations as international health treaty.   Will Dove  10:09 But that's not the treaty. The treaty’s something else, they wanted to get the treaty passed, but that didn't happen. So please explain what that is, the International Health Treaty that they wanted to pass, why it didn't and what they're doing about it.   James Roguski  10:22 They wanted both. They got the first, they got the amendments to the regulations, and the new agreement. It has been called many things, the pandemic agreement, the pandemic treaty, it's really structured as a framework convention, they were unable to reach agreement on that. They did say they use color coding, like they'll put green on an area that they've agreed to. And yellow will be something that maybe a subgroup has agreed to.   James Roguski  10:53 So approximately half of that document, they had reached agreement. And so, they didn't quite make it. So, they've extended it, the next negotiating session sometime in July, they didn't pick a specific date. And they're shooting to have it done as quickly as possible.   James Roguski  11:11 And if it works out, according to what they want, they intend to call for a special session of the World Health Assembly, which would be an interesting bookend because that's how it all got started, they had a special session in December of 2021. If that doesn't happen, if it takes longer then it'll wrap around until the May 2025, 78th World Health Assembly, so the treaty is absolutely not dead. The treaty is extended and negotiations are extended.   James Roguski  11:43 And the amendments to the International Health Regulations have been adopted, I believe fraudulently, there's all kinds of stuff to talk about. But their official view is that they successfully negotiated amendments to the International Health Regulations. And I'm going to dive right in and kick a hornet's nest, because I don't think you're afraid of that.   James Roguski  12:06 If anyone in the viewing audience sees any sort of media out there, where people are saying, this has been a great victory for us, we stopped the WHO, the treaty is dead, go back to sleep, don't worry about it.   James Roguski  12:27 I'll give you my email address, and I'll give you my phone number, it's 310-619-3055. Please send me whatever it is you see out in the internet, because that is to be kind, ill-informed inaccurate information. I keep getting emails from organizations who suddenly are claiming that they helped stop the WHO. Our victory was due to our efforts, please send money. And I'm disgusted by it.   James Roguski  13:03 And if you see anything like that out there, please let me know. Because we got our butts handed to us. And a lot of people were confused in the last year, because people were talking all kinds of smack, oh, it's going to do this, it's going to do that, it's the treaty and the amendments all mushed together.   James Roguski  13:23 We have a problem. Okay? And the problem is people within the movement, and I'll be kind, they've been spreading misinformation. And that doesn't help our cause. And I can't talk to anyone's intent. I'll just assume that everyone is just ill-informed. But we've got to get our act together. If we're going to push back against the WHO, the United Nations and everything that's above them, which is essentially Big Pharma in this particular case.   Will Dove  14:01 Yes, so before we move on, I want to - let's talk about the treaty and what they didn't get yet. Anyway, as you've explained, they're working on, they're going to push it through, it's going to happen eventually. But what was in the treaty that is now on hold possibly could be renegotiated before they can get it signed.   James Roguski  14:25 Let me push back on the way you worded that, because I always want to put it out where it manifests of, you know, here's what they want to do, and I'm going to do everything I can to stop.   James Roguski  14:35 So, I don't want to put the language out there. They're going to do this, and the other thing. Here's what they're trying to do that we have to push back against, short version of a long story. They want billions of dollars to implement their One Health Surveillance. It's not about health. And it's not necessarily about cameras or audio equipment or Google watching you or that sort of thing.   James Roguski  14:58 What they mean by One Health Surveillance is what they're doing now with bird flu. You tell me how they found with a PCR test bird flu in penguins in Antarctica and then on cow udders in Texas and in milk across the country. Can you not smell the scam through the use of the PCR test to make you think that somehow a penguin and cattle in Texas are somehow connected?   James Roguski  15:27 They want to be able to surveil everything, your local bat cave, your septic system, your sewage treatment plant or your wastewater, the CDC literally has a Wastewater Surveillance program. Look it up, you'll find it.   Will Dove  15:40 Health Canada has one too.   James Roguski  15:44 You know, all over the place, they're looking for pathogens with pandemic potential. Could be your chicken coop, your pigsty, your horse barn, your stables or your cow barn or whatever animals you have. You take your pet to the vet and give a stool sample, they want to know, they want to surveil every genetic scrap, whatever they want you to stick up your nose. They want that so that they can find something to scare you with and turn into money.   James Roguski  16:16 So, they want the One Health Surveillance System to bring all of that into the WHO coordinated laboratory network, where they figure out whatever they want to claim. Whether people believe in viruses or not, you should be able to believe that they can trick you with a genetic sequence claiming to be harmful and dangerous, then they want to enter that into the pathogen access and benefit sharing system. So that if any company turns that into a product, if they've given access to the pathogen, they want to share in the benefits.   James Roguski  16:56 Now, here's where it throws you a curveball. Okay? Does anybody in the audience know what happened on May 24th, the Friday before the Assembly? What happened was across town in Geneva, at WIPO, the World Intellectual Property Organization. This is supremely important to the script that followed.   James Roguski  17:20 WIPO had been negotiating for quite some time, something that was the sticking point, in the WHO negotiations. If you heard what I just said, they wanted to go find pathogens, identify the genetic sequence, handed over to the pathogen access benefit sharing system, corporations make those products, the WHO would be in charge of the distribution and logistics. But the concern was, hey, wait a minute, how are we going to ensure with some kind of contract?   James Roguski  17:52 Here's the genetic sequence, we gave it over to you, we want our benefits. Well, they normally had something called a Standard Material Transfer Agreement. And there we harmony in hand, they were trying to settle intellectual property disagreements in the WHO. And so, they took it across town. And they settled it at WIPO.   James Roguski  18:13 And on Friday, the 24th, they had a signing ceremony for a 10-page treaty, 138 nations signed on. And here's what was in that document, which I think was really shabby, to the point where in the first article, they couldn't even manage to get all of the terms in alphabetical order. Okay, one of the words was out of place. I'm like, I guess, they're really in a hurry for this one, weren’t you?   James Roguski  18:40 Anyone in the 138 signatory countries who puts forth a patent application, if it utilizes any kind of genetic information, they have to identify the source of the genetic information. And so essentially, that's how you claim your royalties. Oh, you guys patented something. You're making a test or a jab or a drug or doing whatever. Where'd you get that from? We want our piece. We want our cut. That cut signed on Friday.   James Roguski  19:14 The Assembly opened up on Monday. On Tuesday, they were supposed to vote or at least present the current status of the amendments and the treaty. Well, instead of voting, they said, hey, let's put our shoulders to the grindstone and push. And they stayed up late Wednesday, Thursday, Friday into Saturday.   James Roguski  19:37 And everybody's celebrating, oh, you know, if you've ever seen a football player or rugby or something like that, they're running for a touchdown. They're on the 10-yard line and they start celebrating and they get tackled and they fumble and they're embarrassed. That's pretty much what happened.   James Roguski  19:53 They kept pushing. They reached an agreement. I don't feel that they properly went through the procedure to actually vote. A good friend, Shabnam Palesa Mohamed, published an article, I republished it on my Substack, talking about how many of the delegates felt very pressured, especially by the United States, to stay till two in the morning, four the morning. I mean, they pushed really hard. While everybody on our sides busy celebrating on the 10-yard line, they pushed it through.   James Roguski  20:28 They, I don't believe they took a proper roll call. They didn't have a quorum. And they didn't have a hand vote where they have a tally of these nations said yes, and these nations said, no. They had the, you know, whoever was in the room is unknown, and probably unknowable. They said, oh, we're talking about the amendments, so is everybody good? Okay, boom, adopted. So, as far as anybody's concern, this have been adopted.   Will Dove  20:58 The amendments have been adopted; the treaty was not. And the treaty, as you explained it, that's their intellectual property rights agreement between all these various bio labs to share all this research, so that Big Pharma can make more money, and the cooperating countries can get a chunk of that money.   James Roguski  21:19 It's an incentive program to go looking for disease X.   Will Dove  21:23 Exactly.   James Roguski  21:24 More money, no, more fear mongering, more terrorism can happen. Now, none of that - if you read Article 24, paragraph two used to be paragraph three. So, depending on which version you have, it says crystal clear language, nothing in the treaty has anything to do with giving the secretary, or the WHO, or the Director General, any authority to mandate drugs or jabs or lockdowns, or any such thing. That's been there for months.   James Roguski  21:54 So, anybody who's been saying the treaty is going to give Tedros the authority to do this and it's going to infringe upon your national sovereignty, they've been barking up the wrong tree, feeding you a dose of something that's not true.   James Roguski  22:07 The treaty is a bigger theft, it's a bigger money game, what they want is to increase the capacity to find pathogens to scare you with and have all of these products manufactured in advance. So, they're sitting in warehouses somewhere, and they go, oh, the Director General declared a fake or a pandemic emergency, which is the new part of that in the amendments, be afraid, be very afraid.   James Roguski  22:37 Now, doesn't have to be global. You know, it could be some Podunk little town somewhere where they go, oh, we found something weird in your poop. And so, the septic system feeds from that location, we got to lock down that area, and everybody there got to be afraid, be very afraid. Oh, but we've got these products, we'll pull them in, and we'll bring them in. And we'll give you all these wonderful jabs and drugs and diagnostics and so forth.   James Roguski  23:02 This is incentivizing the quest for pathogens with pandemic profiteering potential to scare the people and - it's the classic Hegelian dialectic, be afraid, be very afraid, we have a problem, oh, here we are on our white horse coming with the pharmaceutical solution.   Will Dove  23:20 Right. So...   James Roguski  23:23 It's always been about equity to fund the Big Pharma in poor nations.   Will Dove  23:31 Right. So, the treaty is a financial incentive to national governments to get their bio labs to essentially work for Big Pharma to hand over any pathogens that they find. And the June 24th WIPO thing, that was where they agreed upon the ways that these countries would be able to claim their intellectual property rights to get their share when Big Pharma takes that pathogen, uses it to scare the crap out of people, creates a vaccine for it, and makes billions and billions of dollars. And that's the thing that they have not yet signed, that treaty. But they're going to, they're going to push it through, they'll get there eventually.   James Roguski  24:13 They still have a sticking point, because just the patent and that tracking to attribute credit. They still are trying to hash out the manufacturing know how and the intellectual property that would be needed, and how all of the contracts would work. Because they don't want these to be made in Germany or the United States or the UK.   James Roguski  24:39 Go back to - I don't know if this rings any bells, but you know, go back to the giant sucking sound of NAFTA, where it was said that manufacturing would be sucked out of North America, go all around the world with the North American Free Trade Agreement. This is essentially a worldwide WHO-Big Pharma trade agreement. Let's take money from wealthy nations, and intellectual property that's all agreed upon to build out the Big Pharma infrastructure in nations who can't really afford that. So that the oligarchs in those nations can get these grants, build out the manufacturing plants, the laboratories, and profit when they make stuff for their own people.   James Roguski  25:23 So, to oversimplify this, this isn't Tedros coming to Canada to try to jab you. This is Tedros saying, hey, send us your money. So, we can build out all the oligarchs around the world, so that they can coerce their own people. It's still horrible, it's just a different kind of horrible.   Will Dove  25:45 So, James, if I'm understanding correctly, you're telling me that the treaty hasn't been agreed on yet simply because the various players are still all scrambling amongst themselves to get the biggest possible chunk of the pie?   James Roguski  25:58 Correct.   Will Dove  25:59 Right. Okay. So now that we've established that, let's move on to the what was agreed on the amendments. And there was a lot to discuss, there was over 300 of these amendments, some of them got rewritten a little bit. What was agreed on? What did they actually ratify this past weekend?   James Roguski  26:18 If I may, let me go backwards in time and start from the beginning because I think it matters, okay? It really starts with, on December 1, 2021, it wasn't the WHO saying to all of the nations, we need you to come together because we want to take over the world. Okay? What it was, was all of the nations who, if you erase the things that you think you know about the jab, and turn yourself into a normie. Go back in time to December 2021, the nation said, hey, Canada's hogging up all the jabs, they got 400 million jabs for 40 million people, we want our fair share.   James Roguski  27:05 They argued that they wanted the WHO to negotiate an agreement to ensure equitable access to pandemic related products. And a month and a half later, the United States puts forth a proposal for a number of amendments to the International Health Regulations that did a number of things, but didn't address that at all.   James Roguski  27:30 And so, I learned about that a couple of months later. That's how I got involved in, just taking over my life for the last two years. But the nations looked at that. And they basically said to the United States, shove it. This doesn't address what we just told you we wanted. What in the heck are you doing? Well, what the Biden administration was trying to do, amongst other things, was shorten the time period that amendments would go into effect from 24 months down to six.   James Roguski  28:01 Now, if you take six months from right now, that would have applied to these amendments, and six months from now is still within the Biden administration. So, they were thinking ahead, they were trying to shove through amendments so that the next round of amendments would be within his administrative time, and they could ram him through before the next administration.   James Roguski  28:28 That got kicked to the curb by the nations who looked at it and said, what are you doing? We said, we want equitable access to pandemic related products. And you're dealing with whatever was in those amendments. That was never seen never discussed during the 2022 World Health Assembly.   James Roguski  28:48 In the middle of the Assembly, in complete violation of article 55, that says you got to have four months’ notice, the United States and a handful of other nations submitted five amendments - amendments to five articles, that shortened the timeframe to 10 months. I don't really know why they settled on that, they just wanted to move faster. And they never actually voted. They never had a proper vote.   James Roguski  29:15 They put out documentation that said that they adopted it, but it never happened. It took 18 months before Rob Bruce and 11 other members of the European Parliament wrote a letter to the WHO saying, hey, you guys say that these are adopted, but you never voted. Where's the evidence of a vote?   James Roguski  29:39 Well, they didn't get any response. They wrote another letter; they still haven't gotten a response. But a couple of months ago, the WHO removed all the videos of the 2022 Assembly. Well, there isn't any evidence of a vote in those videos. You can look through all of them and you won't find it.   James Roguski  29:57 But they just basically punked the whole world except the Islamic Republic of Iran, the Kingdom of the Netherlands, Slovakia and New Zealand, they got their act together, they wrote a letter to Tedros and said, hey, we're invoking Article 61, we reject whatever the heck it is you think you did in 2022. So, they're smart enough to figure out that they can just say, no thanks.   James Roguski  30:24 So, at that same meeting, the nations essentially said, oh, you guys want to change the International Health Regulations, we'll show you how to change the International Health Regulations. And they set up a process that we've been talking about for a year and a half now. And they said by September 2022, all of the nations should submit whatever the heck it is they want to submit. That's where the 94 nations submitted 197 pages with over 300 amendments.   James Roguski  30:55 Now, there were some crazy things in that document. And what happened was, October, November, December of 2020, to January of 2023, into February 6, they had put together a panel of experts, the International Health Regulations review committee. And on February 6, they published their analysis of the amendments that had been submitted by the nations.   James Roguski  31:22 Now I had had a month and a half to look at, I did a whole movie on the amendments that were submitted, I had a list of 10 things that I thought were really bad about him. And I was pleasantly surprised when the review committee report came out. And they pretty much put the kibosh on the stuff that I thought was bad. I was like, wow, that was a surprise. They formally presented that report on February 20th, and then they just went dark. Just didn't see anything new out of them until March of this year.   James Roguski  31:59 And so, I don't know, you know, in the audience, how many people have read the 97-page report on February 6, from the International Health Regulations review committee, that pretty much said, hey, Bangladesh, we know that you want access, equitable access to pandemic related products, but Article 13-A, which would have given Tedros the authority to say to something like Canada, I'll use Canada as an example. Hey, you guys got a bunch of lipid nanoparticles in your manufacturing plant over there. And these guys in some other country, they need some of that, you know, so you got to send it to them. Okay, work it out.   James Roguski  32:43 They wanted to set Tedros up as the kingpin to direct traffic if there was some emergency and some material, some pandemic related product that some country had or could produce would be delivered to where it was needed. While the review committee said, yeah, we don't want to be in that position. That's liability for us, right? We're not supposed to be doing that kind of commercial activity. But nobody read that damn report.   James Roguski  33:11 And so, for the last year, or I'll say nobody heeded that report, if they read it. For the last year, people have been saying all kinds of things. Oh, WHO was emitting a coup, they're trying to take over your national sovereignty. They want to tell your government how to run their health programs, and lock downs and mandates and all that sort of stuff. If you read the documents, you won't find that anywhere, after that report.   James Roguski  33:42 In March, and I think we talked about this, but in March of this year, I lucked out, I stumbled upon a website, and they had published a leaked version from February of 2024. That was pretty close to this final version, there were a couple of articles that were still missing. But all of that craziness was long gone. And I spread that around, and I might as well drop that into a black hole. Nobody wanted to talk about it. It's astonishing to me, but everybody kept up with the narratives, the fear mongering, oh, the WHO is going to take over the world, is going to have a global digital ID and they're going to be able to declare pandemics for everything, gun control, and climate change and so forth and so on.   James Roguski  34:30 I can't tell you how many people I have had to walk back from the ledge of them being so afraid that all of the many things that are out there in the world, Central Bank digital currency and sustainable development goals and UN troops and this and that and the other thing, they thought that Biden had already signed the treaty and that was going to happen in May. And it's like, what's in here is bad. Where the hell did you get that information? That's not what's indeed - have you read the documents?   James Roguski  35:06 So, the point is, hearsay, it’s really dangerous. I want to say very clearly, please do not listen to anything I say, the source material is available to you, read it for yourself and verify that this is what was adopted. And so, what happened in the run up, we talked about the WIPO and that sort of thing. So, they worked all week long, they adopted these amendments. And since that happened on Saturday, I don't know that there's been but a handful of people who've even analyzed this, I mean, I got a great analysis from Libby Klein, in Australia, she spent the last three days digging into this, and she did a great job.   James Roguski  35:57 I had a discussion with Tess Lawrie, and while we were discussing it, she pointed out oh, I'm looking for this section. And it was the section that I'm about to talk to you, we had independently looked at this document and said, oh, my God, look at that. So, there are people out there who are applying themselves. And sifting through the smoke and mirrors that are flopping around the internet about we win, we defeated the WHO and the treaty is dead, go back to sleep, you know, pay attention to Trump or whatever the heck else is in the news. So let me try to summarize what is really going on in the stock.   Will Dove  36:37 Please do if you please, at this point in time, if you would cover the amendments that you're concerned about.   James Roguski  36:42 I'm concerned about many, okay, and there's kind of sort of two categories. But first and foremost, is one of the little tiny changes that they made was they had been talking about pandemic related products, but they couldn't settle in on the definition of just a pandemic. So, they changed that to relevant health products. And we talked about global goods, where they want these things to flow like water, so that everybody can have all that they ever would want. It includes many, many things, but includes medicines, vaccines, diagnostics, and they wedged in at the last moment, cell and gene-based therapies, and other health technologies.   James Roguski  37:32 So that's the definition that flows throughout the document. Everybody wants equitable access to these global public goods, relevant health products, which is essentially Big Pharma. We need more diagnostic things to tell you that you're sick when you're not, that harm you and are very profitable. We need more drugs like remdesivir. And we need jabs for everything. And the core premise that those things are good, is really the problem. Right?   James Roguski  38:08 Everybody in these negotiations has just assumed, oh, well, they didn't have enough diagnostics, they didn't have enough remdesivir, they didn't have enough COVID jabs, what's why the pandemic was so bad. Whereas if you look at it with reality, in mind, the testing made everybody didn't leave there was a big problem, it really wasn't much worse than any other year, except that the protocols that were implemented using these dangerous drugs, and jabs probably murdered more people in hospital because of the treatment protocols than any ailment ever would have. And so…   Will Dove  38:46 I think, just to jump in for a second, James, to make this clear for people and please tell me if you disagree with what I'm about to say. A lot of the confusion is coming from this mistaken idea that the WHO is, they're part of the globalist power structure. And what they want is absolute totalitarian control. If instead you see them as the WHO, as the marketing arm for Big Pharma.   James Roguski  39:16 I tend to refer to them as the tail that is being wagged by the big dog of the pharmaceutical hospital emergency industrial complex. So absolutely, yeah.   Will Dove  39:26 So, if we keep that in mind, folks, if we were to think of the WHO as the way, James voice it or the way I voiced it, as the marketing arm, they're there to help Big Pharma make more money.   James Roguski  39:40 And I'll point it out a minute here. All of the parasitical organizations, the non-government organizations, NGOs, non-state actors, civil society organizations, foundations, nonprofits, whatever the heck you want to call them, they have listed approximately 400 relevant stakeholders. And they're all circling around, actually, they're hanging out in the cafeteria, they refer to it as committee seat. So, when all of the nation's delegates go into the secret discussion meetings, all of the representatives of these groups that could benefit from this are hanging out in committee seat in the cafeteria, so that when they come out during their breaks, they all get all the information and they try to influence it. And you can see a little bit of that in here.   James Roguski  40:33 And so, I see that as fascism with a 21st century upgrade. Benito Mussolini defined fascism as government and corporations working together. But then you have the third leg of public private partnerships with all these foundations like Planned Parenthood or whatever other organization that they infiltrate into the government, they get funding. And one of the biggest surprises is that the Rotary International Organization donates tens of millions of dollars every year to the WHO, and you go, what are they doing? How does that got anything to do with what's going on in the Rotary? But they're a contributor.   James Roguski  41:19 So, there's a couple of things that I would like to point out. And I obviously did it in the article that's pinned on the top of my substack, so you can get all this information right there for yourself. In Article 13, paragraph 8, subsection C, it says that the director general shall support states parties, which means nations, in scaling up and geographically diversifying the production of relevant health products. To me, that's the punchline. The WHO wants to help nations through all of their connections, build out the pharmaceutical hospital emergency industrial complex in their nations? Well, how are they going to do that? Well, Article 44 bis, which is a new article. But interestingly enough, it was not highlighted in bold text.   James Roguski  42:17 So, when people go look into this document, realize that they didn't necessarily bold, all of the new amendments, it's a little bit confusing, you got to compare it to the original, this is the big one that they did not make obviously bold. And essentially what it says is a coordinating financial mechanism to be known as the mechanism is hereby established. So, it is this unlimited pool of money, whatever they can beg, borrow, and steal from nations like Canada, the United States, European Union, European Commission, Gates Foundation, wherever they can get money to flow into this mechanism, the WHO will direct the flow of that money to any nation or a corporation or foundation who wants to do what they want them to do.   James Roguski  43:12 Now, there's one line in here that I find very interesting, and I think it's the gravy train for all of the foundations. It says that the mechanism shall leverage voluntary monetary contributions for organizations and other entities supporting the nations. Is that money for Planned Parenthood and Doctors Without Borders, and any other of these quite frankly, vultures and parasites who are circling around these negotiations, who wanted a piece of the pie? This is why everybody wanted this agreement to happen. It's a financial structure, that if the United States goes deeper into debt, and throws in millions of dollars and UK and Australia and New Zealand. Well, who do you think is going to influence where that money goes?   James Roguski  44:09 You think it's going to be you, with your cold or flu or some other ailment that they're going to worry about? No, it's going to go to manufacturing things that turn a profit. And if the treaty comes into place, they're going to go looking for things to scare you with while they're busy building the machinery to make the things that harm you. The diagnostics, the drugs and the jabs do not improve your health, they harm your health, but they don't want to hear that because that's not good for business. And you don't bite the hand that feeds you.   James Roguski  44:45 So, there was never a single word that I've ever heard in any of these negotiations, where somebody came up and said, excuse me, you know, those jabs are really harming and killing people, why do you guys want to make more of them? That was never said. And so, anybody who's saying that this is a victory, they got everything they wanted, even better. They asked for, Dr. Tedros, could you tell Canada to send the products that they make to us when we need them? Instead of that, which was the initial request, they got, hey, let's make this big pile of money and the WHO will manage it, and you go get as much money as you can, so that we can make our own and make a profit out of them. You have all that we want. Let's turn this into a global public good, jabs flying off the factory floor all day long, cha-ching, cha-ching, cha-ching, to whoever's willing to play ball.   Will Dove  45:49 Right? So, James, as you've been talking, a very simplified explanation for all of this struck me, I want to run it pass you and see what you think.   James Roguski  46:00 I know what’s in your mind, go ahead.   Will Dove  46:03 Essentially, the amendments are the business plan, and the treaty is the legal agreements and who's going to get what?   James Roguski  46:14 I agree. I was…   Will Dove  46:17 I said, very simplified.   James Roguski  46:20 I was going to simplify it down to follow the freakin’ money. But I agree with you. And the treaty brings in the fearmongering aspect of - let's go find some pathogens to scare people with, and it'll give us the raw material to make the products that make the money.   Will Dove  46:37 Right. So, within the treaty, it’s not just a legal agreement, it's also the marketing plan.   James Roguski  46:42 And the treaty to which you refer, you also got to add in the WIPO Treaty, which is a separate thing. Okay? But absolutely, and I've been saying this since November of 2022, I was blessed by - I was looking for the amendments that they were keeping secret. And I watched the B20 meeting, it followed the G20, when all of the business leaders met in Bali, and the Indonesian health minister was talking about something a little bit different. He said, the US through the Defense Department, and subsequently, the National Defense Authorization Act, allocated $5 billion over the next five years, and they got a whole number of other countries together to get money for the pandemic fund to the World Bank. He said to the audience of business people, look, they're going to have a multibillion dollar fund, this is a great business opportunity, go invest.   James Roguski  47:46 And that was the switch that made me look at all of this information through the lens of - follow the money. And so, when you realize that if you're a business leader, and you have the financial wherewithal to put in a grant application, or be connected with somebody who knows that money is going to start flowing into that industry, you position yourself to be on the ground. And you receive the shipping container from Moderna, that's a factory in a box. And I spoke to somebody who was at one of these meetings, this is secondhand, so take it with a grain of salt, that some of the advanced laboratory equipment can run through the PCR process for any given swab for pennies.   James Roguski  48:39 So, if you've got great scale at running through all of these tests, and you can do it for pennies and charge, God knows what, because everybody's afraid, and they all have to have a test in order to go to work or travel. Talking about money, oh, it's just, they might as well just be printing it or digitally creating it. And so, I think it's very, very simple. This is theft. This is wealthy nations, who they are government, quietly, puts it in some bills somewhere. Oh, we're pandemic prevention, preparedness and response. We're going to give the WHO mechanism $10, $20, $30, $40, $50 million dollars, billion dollars, whatever it might be, whatever they can shove into this fund, and funnel it through to build out Big Pharma.   James Roguski  49:37 It's not that they're coming for your sovereignty. You've already lost your sovereignty to multinational corporations. It's not that they're coming to tell your medical colleges how to abuse doctors who are trying to treat patients. I think the Canadian Medical Colleges are already corrupt enough. They don't need any help from the WHO. So, that diversionary discussion, took everybody's eye off the ball of - this is about money, and making more biological weapons and poisons. And then if the treaty goes in, go look for more pathogens to scare people with. And the lesson that they learned from COVID was, hey, we did that to about 5.5 billion last time, but we missed a few. So, let's go put some infrastructure on the ground. Let's hire people locally to make the murder weapons. And then let's have a problem here, there, somewhere else. And we'll have all these products in stock ready to go because the logistics were hard last time, you had cold chain, and refrigeration, that was too hard. Let's get it local so that we can do it much faster.   Will Dove  50:48 Alright. Now I have some more general questions for you, James. But you touched on a couple of the amendments and specific before we move on, was there anything else in the amendments specifically that you wanted to touch on before we ask you more questions?   James Roguski  50:59 There's a concern with some of the amendments in regards to international travel. And so, I want to make sure crystal clear that I'm not talking about WHO mandating any, was been a red herring. It's not about the WHO saying, you got to lock down or have travel restrictions, either in your country or even internationally. That's not how this is structured. And that's part of the confusion that's been circling around the internet.   James Roguski  51:30 Article 31, which is existing, it's from 2005. If a person travels to another nation, once you leave Canada, whatever Charter of Rights and Freedoms or Bill of Rights you feel that you have to protect you, when you land in another jurisdiction, all bets are off. And the agreement that has been in place since 2005, says that the authorities in the nation to which you are traveling, can compel international travelers to undergo a medical examination, prophylaxis, vaccine, whatever that means these days, or be isolated and quarantined.   James Roguski  52:14 Now that's existing. And I know people personally, who when they've traveled, they were not ill, but they had to be quarantined in order, you know, whatever period of time it is. I know people who traveled, got off the plane, went through customs, didn't have the paperwork that they said was needed. They found themselves in a small side room with medical personnel with the rubber gloves and a syringe and an alcohol swab coming out their arm, and they managed to stand their ground. But wait a minute, okay. I know people who are in the Health Freedom Movement, they're leaders in the Health Freedom Movement, and the reason they got involved is in past years, they wanted to travel for business or pleasure. And they knew that they needed to get jabs in order to go. So, they voluntarily got them and they wrecked their health and it woke them up. And that's why they're doing what they're doing now.   James Roguski  53:08 This is not nothing. This is not benign. This is a problem. And if you think it's not, just go try to travel somewhere and then got, oh, we just had a dengue outbreak or we got whatever and you're in another nation. Boy, you better have the embassy's number on speed dial, because they have an agreement amongst all nations, and this is where the SIOP is so spectacularly sophisticated. Everybody's talking about oh, the WHO was trying to take over your national sovereignty. What this actually is, is an expression, a very perverted over blown expression of national sovereignty, to abuse the rights, freedoms, and bodily autonomy of an individual man, woman or child who is traveling lawfully. Ah, you can walk across the southern border, don't worry about that.   James Roguski  54:07 But if you try to do it legitimately, the nation can express their sovereign right to deny your entry, but you're now on their territory and you are screwed, that's existing. Articles 24 and 27. 24, they want to amend it because they want the conveyance operator to implement it. It's not a government official at some customs location who's authorized by the government to do medical procedures on travelers. They want the cruise line or the airline or whatever to facilitate this on embarkation and disembarkation. This is more fascism.   James Roguski  54:53 Get corporations to do the government's dirty work and they also in Article 27 (1) to add the quarantine of the entire conveyance. Now there's a word in the definitions, that is suspect. If you're on a boat, and somebody is deemed to have got some disease, if you're anywhere in the general vicinity, you're considered to be a suspect, they could quarantine the whole boat. So, if you tie that together, it's not directly tied together in this document. But mentally, if you go, oh, with all of the sustainable development goals, and carbon, you know, offsets and credits and all that sort of thing, they want to shut down travel, that's how they want to turn this into a locked down planet.   James Roguski  55:43 Your nation can abuse anybody trying to get in. And if you try to leave, that nation can abuse you and all of your local legislation. There's a lot of talk about Louisiana passing legislation. Oh, the WHO doesn't have any jurisdiction in Louisiana. Well, they don't, they weren't trying to get it. That's wonderful. Okay, fine. But if somebody from Louisiana gets on a cruise boat in New Orleans, and goes to Jamaica, or some other Caribbean Island, when they get there, that Louisiana law pushing back against the WHO is irrelevant. The local laws and their rules are going to apply. You try to go, oh, but I'm from Louisiana, and the WHO doesn't have any authority here. They're going to go, we're not the WHO, we're the Bahamas, or Jamaica, or Grenada, or whatever.   James Roguski  56:34 It's a decoy. Because what you really need to have your local legislators doing is looking at the emergency procedures that they themselves used to abuse you when you were at home over the last four and a half to five years. So, legislators saying, oh, the WHO very, very, very, very bad. While the laws in their state, or what was used to overstep their authority, and attack the rights and freedoms of people in that state. Oh, don't look there. Don't have us do anything about that. That's hard. You know, a one paragraph document law, saying the WHO, the United Nations, and the World Economic Forum don't have any jurisdiction in Louisiana.   James Roguski  57:21 If you can't smell the decoy there, keep sniffing. Go look at the laws in Louisiana or any other state, Ontario, British Columbia, Western Australia, as far as I know, has the worst. They are prepared to just abuse their people, take their property, lock them up, you know, destroy property. I mean, it's all written into the law, that if somebody says there's an emergency, they can do whatever the heck they want, by law, while the law is corrupt, and it should be deemed unconstitutional. But you know, this is what we're dealing with while government officials are wagging the finger at the WHO. Those types of laws are not going to touch the transfer of wealth that's designed to build out the infrastructure to go looking for pathogens and make products so that they can scare you, and poison you. State and provincial law isn't going to touch any of that.   Will Dove  58:21 Okay, so before we tie all this together, there's one thing that I think we have to absolutely clarify, we touched on it briefly earlier in the interview. And that is this very broad misconception that these amendments were going to give the Director General, the WHO, not just the authority to declare a pandemic, but to dictate the health measures to the member countries. And that is absolutely not true.   James Roguski  58:43 That is correct. Now, I will give everybody who has ever said that a way out and an excuse. What Bangladesh said was they wanted the Director General to have the authority to tell nation A, we need these products for nation B, you have to give it to them. And out of that grew this monstrosity idea of you know, the Director General is going to take over the world. So that little germ of an idea that was kicked to the curb over a year ago, just grew out of control.   James Roguski  59:27 And so, by beating that dead horse and getting everybody you know, to pay attention, I suppose some good has come from that because a lot of people were like, what? What the heck? But now we have to shift those people's understanding of no, no, no, no, that was not what was ever going on. This was always about equity.   James Roguski  59:50 And so now, if I may get to the point where we conclude on a good note because I'm an optimist and I do see a silver lining in this cloudy document in the sense that it's not cloudy anymore in terms of the amendment. They wanted to get it all done at the same time. But because they only got half of it done, we now get to see their plan. They had to put their cards on the table, they've published the amendments, we can see that what this is really all about, is take money from rich nations, funneling it through the WHO, and build out the death machine of testing and drugs and jabs.   James Roguski  01:00:37 If people would just take the time to look at this as if it was a venture capital prospectus. And you were in oligarch in a poor nation, or you were some CEO of a non-government organization or a foundation, and you realize that you got what you wanted. And when that money starts flowing, you're going to get a piece of the pie. You know, if you're evil, and you're just thinking about profit, you'd be like, this looks pretty good, nobody's going to see it. It's really hard to see in the language what this really is.   James Roguski  01:01:13 If you go to Articles 13, 44 and 44 bis, follow the money. This theft, from wealthy nations, to oligarchs in poor nations, so that they can jabbed people that they missed the first time around. And if the treaty goes through, they'll have all kinds of pathogens that they're looking for or manufacturing. The WIPO treaty left to open in the language, that it doesn't have to be naturally occurring genetic sequences. So, somebody could just be using AI, and make a new polio with a new Ebola and a new spike protein, and go, oh, look at this scary genetic sequence that could cause a problem. There doesn't have to be any virus, they can trick people into believing that penguins fly to Texas. And in fact, you know, cow udders. So, what can't they get people to believe?   James Roguski  01:02:12 What we need to do is get people to, again, please don't listen to what I'm saying, use it as an incentive to read the documents, make your own decisions, make your own analyses, and ask yourself, how many times have you heard the people talking about this in these negotiations, demanding equity? We want equity, we want equity, we want equity. They got what they wanted. Even better. They wanted Tedros to tell nation A to give some products to nation B. What they got is, oh, just throw money into the pot, and if you play nice, and you vote for this, will take care of you.   James Roguski  01:02:55 And that headbanging went on all week long. In quiet, in the United States, there's a lot of rumors about how the United States pressured nations to agree to it. And so, if you go along, and the money starts flowing, that's why all of these groups and all these nations worked so hard to make this agreement happen. I had been afraid of this for the whole time, that the hype about, oh, it's going to be so horrible, they're going to take over the world. I kind of knew that when this document dropped, people would look at it and go, oh, it's so bad. But it's really, really bad.   Will Dove  1:03:35 And the reason it's really, really bad, and this is something I've been harping on for quite some time. If people think the WEF, the WHO, Bill Gates, whatever, are orchestrating all of this. That's an extremely simplistic and naive view. What we have here is an agglomeration of wealthy industrialists, many of whom, yes are members of WEF, some of them aren't. And, as you say, it's fascism. They have reached, if you look at it, and wait, I don't have time to go into this. But you know this, if you look at the history of the war that's been going on between corporations and governments for hundreds of years. What we're seeing here is the combination that we're seeing the corporations are now winning through fascism. It's not so much they're partnering with the governments, they're controlling them with money, with influence, right?   Will Dove  1:04:32 And so, what we have is this largely faceless group of extremely wealthy individuals who have decided that they want to own everything, they want to control everything, and this WHO, this is just one part of it. It's a marketing plan. It's an R&D plan, but it's just one part of it. And this is why. It almost doesn't matter whether the amendments said that Tedros could dictate health measures or not, because they've got no way of enforcing it, other than through their governments that are cooperating with them. As you were saying, so it comes down to which governments are going to cooperate with this plan, which governments are that heavily controlled. And the conclusion that I arrive at that is, the only way we can really get out of this is we have to replace those governments, with ones that will respect our rights, but the only way we can do that is to do what you and I are doing, to inform enough people of what's really going on. So, they'll understand it, and understand why we need to replace those people, with representatives who will respect our rights, and not play with these people.   James Roguski  01:05:51 The breakdown of the relationship between the constituent and the public servant, where, you know, we are their boss, we hired them, they work for us, they're supposed to do what we collectively tell them to do, has been broken for quite some time. And they listen to others, they listen to their donors, their owners, groups that are very influential that promised them jobs or benefits or, you know, seat on a board somewhere. And so, if you are silent, can you blame them? If you don't say, hey, this is what I want. And if you don't get large numbers of people together, to confront in a peaceful way, but very stern way, look, you are our member of Parliament, member of Congress, Senate, whatever. We know that you're getting donations from here, here, here and here. I laugh when I hear somebody tell me, I laugh, but I get angry at the same time. Oh, you know, I called Senator so and so, but their office told me that, you know, I don't live in their state, so they can't really help me. Say, excuse me, if you were making a donation, I bet they would take the call.   James Roguski  01:07:11 If they can take money from outside their district, you can talk to each and every one of them. Do not be stopped by any public servant saying that, oh, you're not in my district. So, don't bother me. Do you think they don't speak to lobbyists from all over the world? How does that work out? Okay, so you know, everyone pays a portion of their salary, everyone has a right to nag on all of them to say, look, you need to stop listening to forces outside of our country, outside of our province, whatever. And do what the people that you are supposed to represent, tell you to do, stop listening to them, and listen to us. But that doesn't work if we are silent. We need to get loud. Peaceful, 100% peaceful, but firm and loud. And we know that we are their bosses, they're doing a job for us. And if you had a business and you had an employee, and they were goofing off and doing work for some other company, on your time, you’ll fire them in a heartbeat. And that's what we need to do.   Will Dove  1:08:26 Right. And I agree with you. And I think one of the arguments that can be made to them most convincingly is to point out to them, that when they're done giving away our rights for whatever money was handed to them, they gave away their rights too.   James Roguski  1:08:40 And their children, and their grandchildren, and everyone.   Will Dove  1:08:44 Yes. James, thank you so much for all the endless hours of research that you do for making priority of all of this, for correcting the myths, the myths and the misinformation, and bringing our viewers the real story. I can't thank you enough, because even I in this interview, despite all the research that I do, you've corrected some of my own misconceptions.   James Roguski  1:09:08 You know, I make mistakes. And I've said this many times before, you should learn something new every day. But a great day is when somebody reaches out to me and says, Jim, you know, this little sum over here, you got that wrong. Oh, you are my best buddy. Now, if you're wrong, you should be able to take the correction. Thank you for that. But it's not about being right. It's about identifying what the heck is going on here so that everybody can see what is really going on. There's so much going on that none of us know all of it. But if what we're being told is wrong. And it's contrasted with hey, here's the freakin’ document. Go read it. I would suggest that you don't listen to hearsay. You get the evidence whether it's a document or some kind of audio recording or an email that's been foiled or whatever, do the best you can to use your power of discernment to separate the Bs from what's really going on. And you know, as a general guideline, follow the money. It's a good place to start.   Will Dove  1:10:21 Yes. In conclusion, I'd like to say this, because I think it’s very important. But a year ago, I was invited to give a speech on the importance of independent media. Why did 5 billion people line up for toxic shots? Well, largely because mainstream media told them to. They lied. And the conclusion is this, I'm skipping over a lot of things.   Will Dove  1:10:45 People who have bad information, make bad decisions. And people who have good information, usually make good decisions. And that's why the work that you're doing, the work that I'm doing is so important, because if people do not have the truth, if they do not have good information, they will make bad decisions.   James Roguski  1:11:03 Yep, absolutely. And so, challenge people in the independent media, about this particular story. And I've been asking people, I give all my information out, people can reach me, my phone number is 310-619-3055. You can text me or signal or telegram or WhatsApp, or send me an email, it's james.roguski@gmail.com. And people give me grief about Gmail, I get it. They're watching everything, no matter where you go. But if you see any articles from independent media, who are saying something that after you've looked at this information, you think they've got it wrong. Please send me that information. We need to identify, you know, why is it that there's misinforming hundreds or thousands or millions of other people? We need to stop the misinformation coming from our side. That is not helping at all.   Will Dove  1:12:07 Well said, Thank you, James.