Will Dove  00:00 Recently I interviewed John Leake the co-author along with Dr. Peter McCullough, of the 2022 book, The Courage to Face Covid-19, a book which John was eminently qualified to help write, as he is the author of no less than three other True Crime books. In the course of that last interview, titled Prof. Fauci knew the vaccines wouldn't work. John and I spent some time discussing his books on true crime. We removed that section from the interview as it wasn't relevant. But I still felt the discussion and John's books have a great deal of value. What drives people to kill others without remorse? Our massive conspiracy is pulled off without some minor functionary blowing the whistle or accidentally revealing the plan.   Will Dove  00:55 The answers to these questions and more are revealed in our discussion of John's books, two on serial killers, one male and one female. And a third book of a mysterious and to this day, unsolved disappearance of a young Canadian man. In an effort to avoid censorship, there are things in this discussion that John and I don't say. But as with many true crime stories, the clues are there. If you pay attention, if you read between the lines, the clues that explained much of the current massive conspiracy happening in every country of the world over the past four years, clues to why so many people willingly go along with a plan to harm as many people as possible to steal from us all our rights and freedoms and to subject us all to totalitarian control.   Will Dove  02:01 John, you've given me so much of your time. Thank you so much. I'm going to ask you for five more minutes and we're going to take a complete left turn but I don't think my viewers are gonna mind because it's a very interesting stuff. What we haven't talked about you is that you're also a true crime writer. And you've written several excellent books. Could you tell us about them?   John Leake  02:18 Well, my first book I was living in Vienna, Austria, it's about Viennese serial killer, and Jack Unterweger, the FBI as identified him, as I believe the only known transatlantic serial killer. He murdered women in Austria. He was also himself an author, and a freelance journalist. He has the distinction of when these women started disappearing from the red light district in Vienna, and turning up dead in the Vienna Woods. It was a sensational story. He then gets a freelance assignment for the Austrian National Broadcasting Corporation to do a big radio story on the unknown serial killer. And he actually interviewed the Vienna chief of police. The Vienna Chief of Police didn't know it at the time, but we know now about his own crimes. After doing this trick in Vienna, he then gets on a plane flies to Los Angeles to do a story on crime in Los Angeles, for the Austrian National Broadcasting Corporation, drives around with the Los Angeles to police department, going to these places where prostitutes work and then by night he goes out and kills LA prostitutes, so very weird stuff. And then he writes a screenplay about his life and all of the his adventures obviously redacting that he's killing girls, but a very fascinating psychopath. My second...   John Leake  02:23 That screenplay, it did actually become a movie, sort of, didn't it with John Malkovich?   John Leake  04:08 Well, so John Malkovich, read my book, my book about this maniac. And then John Malkovich. He didn't actually make a movie, he made a musical.   Will Dove  04:20 Okay, that sounds like John.   John Leake  04:23 He showed up at my reading at Book Soup in West Hollywood. And I was, you know, the great, Mr. Malkovich buys a copy of my book. And then a few months later, it's John Malkovich is making a musical about Jack Unterweger, which was super weird, but anyway, it was kind of fun. I went to the premiere in Hamburg and briefly talked with him about it.   John Leake  04:49 My second book is about Canadian ice hockey player from Saskatoon, Canada, who in the summer of 1989 I went on a tour, a driving tour of Central Europe, and vanished without a trace. And the title of the book is "Cold a Long Time", I started working with the parents of this young man, who for decades had struggled with this bizarre and very dark mystery. And so the book is about this story of enduring love for this child, the mystery of what happened to him. And then, ultimately, I was able to figure out with the help of his parents, some forensic experts who I consulted with, we were able to ascertain of what happened to him. It was very dark and disturbing. That story was a very difficult one to research. But what it taught me is the way conspiracies work. It's not that everyone involved in the conspiracy knows exactly what's going on. They don't. They may -- the people that are involved in a cover up may actually know very little, they're told just enough to induce them to shut up. So, you don't know what's going on here. But if anyone should ask you what's going on here, like, what did you see? What did you hear? What did someone tell you? Don't talk about it.   John Leake  06:28 So conspiracy can be a conspiracy of silence. Just if you you know it's good for you, if you want to keep your job, any irregularities or strange things you may have observed, you may not even know how to interpret what you've observed. But if you know it's good for you, you'll keep your trap shut. That's how many conspiracies happened, there may only be a few actors conspires, who actually are fully aware of what is being concealed. Most people don't really know. They just know that something is amiss, and that they're not allowed to talk about what they've seen.   Will Dove  07:06 That's very interesting, John. And let me ask you a quick question about your first book that you talked about. Because this psycho, who was going around Europe and America killing these women. And he's reporting on it. And and from true crime stories I've read in the past, it seems like this is a fairly common theme that these serial killers, they think they're smarter than the police. They think they can, you know, or met them and tease them with being right up there in front of them and that they're not going to get caught.   John Leake  07:38 It's true, oftentimes, and I have worked with a guy named Gregg McCrary. He was a forensic psychologist, the FBI, he actually evaluated this case. And that's how I got to know Gregg. And he said, it's not uncommon for a high functioning psychopathic killer to try to insert himself in the investigation, which is certainly what Jack did. I mean, he's talking to the cops. He's kind of probing what are these guys know? Even if they're pretty tight-lipped, they might reveal something that's useful to me. So it's not uncommon, we've actually documented this in multiple cases, including the subject of my latest book, which is very controversial. I would say it's unprecedented and true crime reporting. It is about a woman who for a time in the late '70s, here in Dallas, Texas, was a fairly prominent socialite. She was married to a very popular man, he was a luxury hotel developer in Dallas. He developed the mansion on Turtle Creek, a luxury boutique hotel in Dallas, which was the first property of Caroline Rose Hunt. She founded Rosewood Hotels & Resorts that then became one of the great hotel portfolios in the world.   John Leake  09:13 Rosewood's first property was the mansion on Turtle Creek, which was developed by Bobby Bridewell. Bobby and his wife Sandra is her name, Sandra Bridewell. They live down the street for me in Dallas in the late '70s and early '80s.   Will Dove  09:31 Truly, the common thing is that you knew her growing up.   John Leake  09:34 I was friends with Sandra's second child who -- I would go to the Bridewell's house to play with and I would sometimes encounter Sandra. And Bobby Bridewell died of lymphoma. And I didn't really know it at the time, but Sandra fell under suspicion at that time for murdering -- she fell under suspicion for murdering the wife of Bobby's treating doctor. And the rumor was, the suspicion was, once Sandra realize Bobby's a goner, he's about to be departing this world. She then took a fancy to the big shot, prominent doctor who was treating him. The problem for Sandra was he was married. He had a wife and two children. So two months after Bobby Bridewell dies of cancer, the doctor's wife is found shot to death in her car parked in the parking lot at Love Field airport. Now, Sandra herself told the police, oh yeah, she'd given me a ride to the airport earlier that day. I mean, Sandra didn't even conceal that. I'm the last known contact of Betsy. She gave me a ride to the airport and oh my goodness, it appears that she committed suicide.   John Leake  11:09 So the first impression of the police who know nothing about Sandra is it looks like Betsy committed suicide. Okay. The medical examiner then ruled at suicide. And in spite of all of the suspicion in my tight knit community that Sandra had something to do with this, she was never arrested for it. Two years later, Sandra remarries a young guy who's just arrived from Oklahoma to work for a commercial mortgage company. He's just arrived in Dallas the day before he meets her. He knows nothing about her. He knows nothing about her notorious reputation. She tells him she's pregnant pretty shortly thereafter, there's a wedding. They marry. And then on the eve of their one year wedding anniversary, he is then last seen driving to meet her for an appointment. He is then found shot to death in his car. She falls under suspicion. Like that is not ruled a suicide the medical examiner sees okay, this is a murder, and she becomes the prime suspect. For reasons I go into in my book, she was never arrested for it. She remains the prime suspect. But she was never arrested for it.   John Leake  12:38 Long story short, I went back and I evaluated the crime scene photos of the doctor's wife as she was discovered in her vehicle, I was able to obtain those photos. And I had them evaluated by contemporary forensic experts. There are multiple signs displayed in those photos that this was not a suicide. It was a murder staged to look like a suicide. Okay. Then I went back and I looked at Sandra's first husband. No, I didn't mention. But her first husband had been found shot to death in his marital bed at his home. That too, the first one was ruled a suicide, I was able to obtain the death scene photos of that gunshot death. I had forensic experts evaluate those photos. That too is not a suicide. There are clear signs displayed in the photos. It was a murder staged to look like a suicide. So my conclusion, what I believe is police in the medical examiner in 1975, the first husband in 1982, the doctor's wife, they just dropped the ball, they just weren't looking closely enough. Which you know, I mean, forensic science wasn't very sophisticated back then, it's advanced a lot since then. The old method of blood stain pattern analysis has developed since then. And one of my experts is a blood stain pattern analysis, the very eminent one.   John Leake  14:24 So the cops in the medical examiner dropped the ball with husband one and with the doctor's wife. My belief, and I have to say it's my belief, it needs to be examined by the competent criminal justice authorities. But based on my evaluation of the evidence displayed in the photos, and the totality of suspicious circumstances, I believe that Sandra is a serial killer, and she's still alive.   Will Dove  14:53 Right. And I find it -- I mean, obviously this is horrific, but it's also I have to say psychologically fascinating, because we were talking about that first serial killer, the guy and we talked about how they tend to be very arrogant. They believe that they're smarter than police. They're getting some kind of rush off of doing this. But for females from who I believe are much rarer as serial killers than men are, but the ones that I've read about, it seems to be a case of expediency. There's something they want, and somebody's in their way. And so they get rid of that person. Does that jibe with what you've read and what you've researched?   John Leake  15:29 Yeah, yeah. I mean, well, for one thing, women are -- there's a theory that there are a lot of undetected female serial killers. That there are female serial killers, they're just better at getting away with it. She's very charming, very seductive, very beautiful, very convincing. Now, when the doctor's wife was found shot at Love Field airport, the doctor starts to panic, calling around where's my wife? And I should say before she was actually found, she was preparing dinner for the family, ran out to do an errand with Sandra and then didn't return from the errand. Dr. Bagwell, the doctor, he receives word of this like, mom did not return from her errand with Sandra. He starts frantically calling around. He catches when that Sandra's dining at a restaurant. He calls the restaurant and he says, where's my wife? And Sandra says, I don't know, she gave me a ride to Love Field to rent a car. I didn't have my driver's license with me so, she gave me a ride back where my car had broken down. Strangely enough, I tried the car again and it started right up and so I've not seen Betsy, since she drove me back to my car. I had no idea where she is. So hold that in mind. About an hour later Betsy, the doctor's wife is found shot to death in her car at Love Field. The Dallas police officer goes to notify the doctor while the Dallas police officer is at the doctor's home to notify him. See if you can guess who shows up at the doctor's house while the police are investigating. Sandra! Oh, I was very concerned when Dr. Bagwell called me at the restaurant he said that Betsy hadn't returned from the errand and I wonder what could possibly be going on here.   John Leake  17:49 So I perceive there to be a parallel between that conduct and then she gives an interview to the police. The police take everything she says that absolute face value. I can find no evidence that they question any of what she told them. I see a parallel with that, her conduct in this case. It's my opinion, I'm not asserting this to be the truth of the matter. But I perceive a parallel between that behavior and the guy in Vienna.   Will Dove  18:25 I got to ask just this one last question, John, because it's going through my head as you've been talking all about this. All the research you did on Sandra, do you ever get the willies? You know, thinking about the fact that as a child you were in her house?   John Leake  18:41 Yeah, and some people say I should have the willies that she might show up in my parking lot. So, yeah, sure, but in my line of work, if I didn't want any risk, I'd write coffee table books about Golden Retriever puppies or something and I probably get, you know, make a lot of money. You just have to accept this. You know, Peter McCullough, when he started speaking out, it was amazing. I mean, it reminded me of -- I thought about it on March the 15th, the Ides of March when Julius Caesar was assassinated. Now, I'm not comparing Peter McCullough to Julius Caesar, but just you know, the knives come out. Caesar walks into the Senate and like all of the senators hit him with a knife and it's an interesting psychology. It's like why did they all stab him? Why didn't just one assassin, a soldier, a gladiator, cut his throat? Why did all of the senators insert at least one dagger stab. It's a delusion of responsibility. No one could say, Senator so and so did it. it's it, the whole Senate did it.   John Leake  20:08 And so when Peter started speaking out, all of these daggers just from everywhere come out. The medical center, he gets fired, that he gets sued from his former medical center where he was a very ranking academic doctor. The American College of Cardiology, have these various academic jobs journals of which he was the editor. They all come after him simultaneously. But what I think is interesting is they all come after him simultaneously by registered mail. It's just, you hereby received notice, you're terminated. You hereby receive notice, you're being sued. The American Board of Internal Medicine has filed a complaint to take your board certifications, just all at once, professorships, you're hereby given notice that your professorship at Texas A&M is terminated, just one after the other. So it's death by registered mail. It's really eerie, and it's really spooky. And it's also very cowardly. Because those senators that stabbed Caesar, I mean, at least he could face who was coming after him. I mean, it's obviously a terrible, horrible thing.   John Leake  21:44 But I think we now live in this period in which if you have enemies, they don't need to stab you or shoot you. They can isolate you, ostracize you, eliminate your means of making living, cut off your financial accounts where you can't spend money. I think that's where we're headed. It won't be jackbooted soldiers and policemen wielding batons, it will just be a kind of imprisonment by virtue of you can't go anywhere, you can't do anything, you can't work, you can't buy goods and services. I think this is where we're headed. And I would like to conclude, the United States Supreme Court is now hearing a landmark First Amendment case, Missouri versus Biden. And I believe I'm not being an alarmist. When I say if the plaintiffs don't win, if the Supreme Court justices ruled in favor of President Biden, I say the First Amendment is done. We no longer -- we will no longer have that constitutional protection. We will now be at the whim of whatever men and women are occupying the executive branch of government. There will be no protection by rule of law, it will be the whim of individual men and women, US Constitution done.   John Leake  23:16 And if those men and women and office should should rule in a moderate way, I guess we can go on about our married business. If they don't, if they decide to pull the noose of tyranny, then we're done. And I don't know if the current justices are fully aware of that. I mean, they're definitely eminently qualified jurists. But there's something that has been happening in the minds of our people that has sort of load them into a strange, lack of awareness, a lack of understanding. Tyranny is always there ready to reassert itself? That's actually the greater experience of humankind going back. Tyranny has more often been the norm. The Constitution of the United States is an exception.   Will Dove  24:21 Yes, it is. And as a Canadian, let me say that I think that the US Constitution is undoubtedly the greatest freedom document ever written. It's unfortunate that the country isn't following it. And we have something very similar to Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, we have a Bill of Rights once again, our government's not following it. And I agree with you completely, John, that we're not headed towards controlled by a jackbooted soldiers. We're headed towards control via bureaucracy. And they intentionally put into these positions, the sorts of people who will just mindlessly follow the orders from above. You're talking about the judicial system. It's at least as bad if not worse, here in Canada 78% of Supreme Court judges were liberal supporters appointed by Justin Trudeau to support his agenda. And of course, they're going to rule in favor of his policies, control by a bureaucracy. That's where we're headed.   John Leake  25:19 And this strange phenomenon we have of the executive, the office holders, I don't know about you but my impression so, time and again, these are very dubious people. There's a kind of overwhelming impression of narcissism. These guys are holding office not primarily a love of attention, a love of wielding power, they don't seem to possess any real competence, or understanding. I mean, Trudeau, Trudeau and Governor Gavin Newsom of California, but both of them are sort of horror film kind of guys. There's just something eerie about those guys. Kind of it's uncanny. You can't quite put -- and then of course, Biden, it's not even clear to me that as a one of full cognitive agency that Biden even exist, he sees this kind of an electronic representation of the President of the United States.   Will Dove  26:33 Yeah. And very controlled. You're absolutely right. All right. John, thank you so much for your time for this interview, for the excellent research that you've been doing. Please keep it up. There's a handful of substacks that I have time to follow, yours and Peters is absolutely at the top of the list. So thank you once again, for everything that you've come on the show today to tell us.   John Leake  26:56 Thank you, Will. I hope your readers will check out our substack Courageous Discourse with Dr. Peter McCullough, and John Leake, and I can be found at authorjohnleake.com.   Will Dove  27:08 All right, thank you very much.