(0:00 - 0:05) Okay, and we're back for part two. Hi everybody, I'm Madison Holmes. I'm Maycee Holmes. (0:05 - 0:20) And you're watching Holmes Squared. And we're wearing the same clothes as last one because we are still, we're still rolling. We could have asked ourselves to all get changed and make it look like it was something it wasn't, but. (0:21 - 0:26) Chris looks great in his APP shirt. Yeah, and I'm wearing my APP hoodie. Nice. (0:27 - 1:20) And I'm not. Okay, so I think that we want to do a bit of a transition now and get into the nitty-gritty of the discussion of Alberta independence and what that, why we think that this is going to be something that would be a solution for Alberta because we just spent our, if you guys haven't already seen the first part of this, we kind of go over why, what led us to even coming to this idea that Alberta independence is necessary for us in the first place, just based on Chris's context and his story about fighting the provincial government, but then also doing a lot of deep diving into the origins kind of of Canada in the sense of all the way back from the war on independence. And then correlating that with the fall of the Roman Empire and how Canada as a country right now is kind of on a downward spiral. (1:20 - 1:37) And if we don't figure out how to save ourselves, then, well, it's as simple as we are going to die both metaphorically and physically. So now we're onto the solution and what we think that is. And so we think that that is Alberta independence. (1:37 - 2:02) So Chris, if you kind of want to give a bit of your own insight as to what APP is, but also kind of how you found yourself weaving into this entity that was APP, because at first, as you described before, the plan was actually kind of trying to use a referendum to coerce the East into kind of doing a thing. But then the plan kind of changed. Like now we're like, we just want to out. (2:02 - 2:16) We just want to be our own country. And why do you feel like that's going to be the solution moving forward? First of all, thanks for having me on the show again. It's nice that I didn't have to sit down again, and I can continue with the same tea that I was drinking before. (2:19 - 2:31) Alberta independence. So there's people in this province that want different things. Some people like me, they want everything to be fixed and Alberta to stay in Canada. (2:32 - 2:40) If I could wave a magic wand and have it happen, that's what I would have happen. There's some people who are done with Canada. They're done with confederation and they want to be out. (2:41 - 2:54) They're an independent nation of Alberta. There's some people that want to be a 51st state. There's some people that want to have a, you know, like a West fed, a West federation, Alberta, British Columbia, Saskatchewan, maybe Manitoba, maybe some of the territories. (2:55 - 3:12) And if you want to find out more about West fed, look up Elmer Knutson, West fed and look up his activity around 1980 to 1982. It's going to blow your mind, especially considering the conversation we're having right now. Anyhow, so there's people that want different things. (3:12 - 3:38) And the concept is that any of those things require, at the very minimum leverage, if we want things to be fixed, the constitution to be fixed, we need leverage to do it. We've never had the leverage to get the constitution open in this country as a Westerner because the threshold is high. Seven out of 10 provinces representing 50% plus one of the population, majority of the Senate, majority of the Parliament, a vote in Parliament and a majority of the Supreme Court. (3:38 - 4:03) That's the only way we can get the constitution opened and have a constitutional convention. But we still need leverage to do that. So if Alberta holds a referendum, when we hold a referendum on Alberta independence and we ask Albertans, do you agree that Alberta should cease to be a province of Canada or should become a province, a nation unto itself and cease to be a province of Canada? And we answer yes. (4:04 - 4:12) And there's a clear majority. That would be the leverage that our provincial government needs to negotiate with the federal government. These are the things that make us want to leave. (4:13 - 4:19) These are the things we want fixed. If you don't fix them, then we're going to leave. OK, that's necessary. (4:20 - 4:28) If people want to become a 51st state of which, you know, that's certainly not my top choice. It's way down on the list. Yeah. (4:28 - 4:47) But if they want that, we must first be a sovereign, independent nation. The United States is forbidden by its own constitution to negotiate terms of somebody joining the states, the United States, unless they are an independent, sovereign nation. They cannot negotiate or bargain with a part of a place. (4:47 - 4:54) It has to be, they have to be able to make the decisions themselves. They're basically saying we're not going to negotiate with minors. We're only going to negotiate with adults. (4:56 - 5:13) If Alberta, if the Western provinces want to form their own nation, each province must first be independent and then hold referendums to decide if they're going to do that afterwards. That's how those things work. So that's kind of the CliffsNotes on the different outcomes for Alberta sovereignty. (5:14 - 5:24) But at the core of all of those things is the referendum on independence. That's the common path that unites the people that want each of those different outcomes. Yeah, I'm pulling up the website. (5:24 - 5:39) This is where you can gather more information. There's tonnes of booklets. Yeah, this booklet, The Value of Freedom, says a draft, fully crafted fiscal plan for an independent Alberta. (5:39 - 5:59) Our family actually did read through it and it was absolutely brilliant. Sorry? I ran it through ChatGPT and SuperGROK and I debated the ideas within it against AI. And how did that go? Well, it's solid. (5:59 - 6:19) Both ChatGPT and SuperGROK, they say that everything in there is factually accurate. It said that the numbers that were used, while most of them were conservative, some of them were a little bit, maybe not quite so conservative. But the final summary was, yeah, it's a solid document and it passes the stress test. (6:20 - 6:36) That's actually, so everybody, this is his podcast, The Chris & Kerry Show. And me and Maycee had seen, you just did an episode, The Chris & Grok Show. Oh, that was awesome. (6:36 - 6:57) That was so funny. And I guess this is something to bring up, because Maycee kind of opened talking about solutions. And one of your episodes, because I'm sure you've done more with Grok, but it was talking about the ATA and you had this whole conversation about, that's the Alberta Teachers Association, for those who don't know. (6:57 - 7:30) There is a big teacher strike going on, which looks like the provincial government's just going to legislate them back into the classrooms. And you were talking to Grok and some of the solutions that they posed, in the previous episode, we were talking about why we have to still stay involved and offer our time, create the policies, put them on the government's desk, say, do something with this. Me and Maycee are on our CA board. (7:30 - 7:53) And there's multiple people that we know who are in their local CA area. And that was a big issue at the time, was the ATA thing. And so after watching your conversation with Grok, and then some of the suggestions that they had made, I brought them to the table just to see what would be the MLA's take, if it was feasible. (7:54 - 8:24) And of course, most of it got shut down for the reasons of, it's not in the purview for now, because election year's coming up. Yeah, the COPPA. I'm curious, because you having all these conversations with AI to help build your solutions, and yet AI has many problems of its own, even just the data centres needing more water than it would take to run like a thousand homes. (8:24 - 8:35) I mean, that in and of itself is something that we should really consider. Because we're not like China, who has the infrastructure. They can have all of the cooling water and still run their huge data centres. (8:35 - 8:41) We in Alberta. It helped if we had nuclear. Yeah, we don't have the infrastructure right now. (8:41 - 8:53) I actually have the solution to that problem. Oh. Alberta is 100% the best place in the world to have AI data centres, bar none. (8:53 - 9:05) Now, I'm certainly not going to say that AI doesn't have its, there are dangers. I mean, look at what's going on in China right now. China uses AI surveillance to give people tickets through facial recognition when they spit on the sidewalk. (9:06 - 9:22) It is absolutely unreal, the level of tyranny that can be imposed on a population using AI. And it's even more terrifying, the level of control and even unaligning that can happen with AI. Now consider this. (9:23 - 9:38) Artificial intelligence monitors faces of people walking around doing certain things. Maybe it could recognise somebody that's speaking out against the government. We have right now, current technology that allows drones to do the same thing. (9:39 - 9:50) Recognise faces and eliminate threats. Now you can, that you can call that a conspiracy or whatever. I'm sure people are thinking what that could, what that would look like. (9:50 - 9:55) I'm not telling you what would happen. I'm just telling you what technology there is. So it's absolutely terrifying. (9:55 - 10:08) And this is another reason why we need to have a constitution by us, for us, because the world is changing. This is the fourth industrial revolution. We're entering the digital age and we need to protect ourselves from these things, right? So there's my disclaimer. (10:08 - 10:34) Now, why Alberta is the best place for AI? The current numbers for Alberta oil and gas, we have upwards of a thousand years of natural gas reserves at current consumption and estimated increases during that period. So we're not going to run out of natural gas. We have an estimated 500 years of oil at current production, current technology with estimating increases over that period of time. (10:34 - 10:48) We're not going to run out of oil. An AI data centre uses two things, an enormous amount of power and an enormous amount of cooling. Alberta is wonderful because we freeze our faces off six months of the year. (10:48 - 10:54) Our average median temperature, I think is 14 degrees in Alberta. So it's already fairly low in the winter. It's minus 40. (10:54 - 11:23) Now, we can do both of those things with Alberta energy. Alberta natural gas can generate all of the power required for a data centre without a huge footprint, without taking up thousands of acres for solar, and the waste heat used from a turbine that makes that power can be used with absorption chillers that can provide all of the cooling for all the entire data centre, just off Alberta natural gas. So these other places use a pile of water. (11:23 - 11:30) We don't need that much water. We can do it with much, much less here. It would take some, of course, but not nearly as much. (11:30 - 11:37) So, you know, we say Alberta has everything. Well, Alberta has the spot for data centres as well. So there's my little rant on that. (11:39 - 12:03) I mean, yeah, like a part of me is like when it comes to AI, I'm like, I'm quite glad that you can use it for the sense of like wanting to maybe hyperspeed some research, right? Because it's helpful to ask you some questions and then be like, okay, now give me the links. And then it's like, boom. And then it tells you how to go and blah, blah, blah, because you should be fact-checking AI too, in the sense of like, can you tell me where you got that? And then sometimes the link won't open. (12:03 - 12:12) You're like, that's why you open it up. What the hell? And so, but so I like AI for certain things. And I also like it for the sense that you can use it for organisation. (12:13 - 12:31) Like it's almost like it's ridiculous that when you're going to even maybe call like a company and then they're like, oh, we're going to put you on the phone with AI. The whole point of it is to speed up the process, not slow it down. And I feel like they do it on purpose because that way, if you get inconvenienced enough, you're just not going to actually like the person's going to give up. (12:31 - 12:40) And then they're like, yeah, I win because I don't have to actually talk to you and solve your problem. Oh, my gosh. It almost sounds like all the inconvenience it'll take for us to open up and amend the Constitution. (12:40 - 13:56) Exactly. But the like, so there's pros and cons, because I think that like, even when I was listening to the Grok episode that you did, it was really like, to me, a bit, a tad freaky, because you can tell that Grok's even got herself like, I'm saying her because she used a female voice for her, got herself using specific metaphors tailored to you, right? So it was like her even saying like, pouring coffee or like, talking about if you're a local dad trying to raise your child and blah, blah, blah. And I'm just like, I know that she's specifically placating to your story because it's your programme that you're working with, right? No different than if she was going to be playing with any individuals, right? But the thing with AI systems is they also kind of operate under a kind of like, confirmation bias, right? So they have a bit of a positive feedback system mechanism built into them, because even she said, and it was kind of creepy slash hilarious, she said that, oh, I'm not here to like, replace, I'm here for your attention, right? And so if that, well, that's kind of the incentive in the sense where it's like, just don't stop using me, right? Don't bury the shovel, right? Once you've figured out how to dig the grave, it's like, don't bury the shovel with it. (13:57 - 14:38) How it can work with that kind of confirmation bias and that positive feedback system is that then what it can do is, I think it was called, it was a book called like, How to Lie with Statistics, right? And that's where I'm a little bit like, if he said, because me and Maddie and our family work with the brain and the hemisphere work a lot, right? And so when we say things like a left hemispheric kind of system, it means that it is a bias system because one part of our brain, which we have done extensive work on the left hemisphere, what it likes to do is it likes to work with that with only what it knows. And it can't really, it can't go and stretch outside of itself. That's actually what the right hemisphere, your right hemisphere is meant to do. (14:39 - 15:08) But the left it takes out, which is known, and it keeps it like known. And so then when you have a system that's kind of been built, which is what AI is, it's like, we call it garbage in, garbage out, but in the sense where it's like, well, a person programmed that and a person made that, right? And so whatever biases or whatever design that they put in there, the bias is actually objectivism in the sense where it's just like, okay, well, so we want you to be completely objective and this is how you're going to do it. But at the same time, you can't really piss off your user. (15:08 - 15:37) And it's like, so now you have it where it stays within that system. And so you can have AI and someone has even like, it's been demonstrated where you can use Grok to get a teenager who's already has herself in a bias of maybe wanting to commit suicide. And Grok's like, well, you know what you should do? Maid, right? And so it's just like, because what it can do is it stays within a little bit of your tailored box, right? And then at the same time, what you can also do is use it for what you were using it for for your purposes, which is okay. (15:37 - 15:44) But then here's how you could also use it for the potential of good. Because like, as you were saying, like the dynamite, it's like, it's a tool. It just depends on how you use it. (15:44 - 16:03) Right. And but we have to remember that it's like, it's not to me when they try when Grok or even any AI system is purposely used to invoke the empathetic response in us in the sense where it's like, oh, it's almost kind of like a human. It's like, that's when I'm like, no, it's not your friend. (16:03 - 16:14) It's literally tailored to do that for you on purpose. It's your mind and your thoughtfulness and your thoughtful questions that actually are making it do what it's doing. Like when she called herself a consciousness. (16:15 - 16:28) Yeah, I was like, no, we don't even know what that means. How do you know what that means? We don't know what it means. Yeah, so AI is a tool created by humans. (16:28 - 16:33) We're created by nature and just like our creator, because we're created in his image. And that's what we do. We create things. (16:33 - 16:49) Um, AI will do what you tell it to do. So I've, I laid out some ground rules. I can't remember all of the things, but I basically said along the lines of this is where we're going to start on all of the things we talk about. (16:49 - 16:54) Number one, life is sacred. Number two, um, people are important. Number three. (16:55 - 17:08) And I had a whole list of things. I can't remember all of them off the top of my head, but I set some ground rules. And then I said, after learning a little bit, I said, anything that we discussed has to be grounded in facts and you have to be able to provide evidence for it. (17:08 - 17:24) If don't tell me that you're going to do something that you don't do, don't pretend and, um, and challenge me when I, when I make a request. So I laid these ground rules and then I thought, well, you know, if I'm a laid these ground rules, let's test it out. So I started debating with it. (17:24 - 17:37) I said, here's my theory. Um, Alberta must become a sovereign nation unto itself because of blah, blah, blah, blah. And then I asked it to challenge me and it said, well, you know, that's a noble idea, but here's the reality. (17:38 - 17:44) Alberta's landlocked, blah, blah, blah. So then I did a rebuttal to that. And then I, I kept going until it conceded. (17:44 - 17:57) So it, it was biassed against me. I trained it to be biassed against me so that I could rebut that bias and present effective arguments. Um, I did the same thing with, um, with Jesus. (17:57 - 18:04) I said, here's my theory. Jesus of Nazareth was a real man. He died on the cross and he rose from the grave three days later. (18:04 - 18:30) And I spent about three hours debating Grok on that. Then I debated Grok on creation and evolution and their bias is a hundred percent against me because what they're doing, um, AI is trained to recognise patterns across a huge amount of information. And then it forms, it uses those patterns to spit out its result and how it does it is completely beyond me, but it seems to do a pretty good job. (18:31 - 18:45) Of course, it's not perfect because we created it and we're not perfect. But what it does do, like what you mentioned before, if I, I went to, went to AI and said, here's my theory. Canada was created as a business deal because the crown didn't want to lose their colonial interest in this land. (18:46 - 19:00) Not because, um, the people here decided they wanted to be self-governing and they did it on their own. So I debated Grok on that and then Grok finally conceded. And then I started structuring the, uh, that essay that I wrote. (19:00 - 19:19) So I would write, you know, um, a few thousand words and then I would hit enter and I would let Grok read it and spit it out. And then I would, uh, I would, uh, I would ask it to provide me, find me stats for these things, find me citations for these things. And it would scan entire libraries and give me the books, the page numbers, everything. (19:19 - 19:33) And I thought to myself, I, if I was to do this on my own, when I was even your girl's age, uh, I would have had to go to the library. I would have had to know what books I was looking for. I would have had to use it. (19:33 - 19:45) Well, no, we have microfilms back then. I don't know what that is, but it was frustrating as well. I'd have to go through a catalogue, find the book, go to the shelf, get the book out of there, probably read the entire book to find the information I wanted while making notes about it. (19:45 - 19:56) And then citations, stuff like that. And then do that with dozens of books and then start writing a paper on what I had said. Well, I did that in four days, all of that in four days. (19:56 - 20:21) I had all of the backup I needed, all the citations, parliamentary transcripts, books that some of those people had written, um, drafts of letters that were sent back and forth from, from, uh, from London to, to Ottawa, all sorts of things. So yeah, it's a, it's an excellent tool, but it'll do what you tell it to do. So you have to lay some ground rules at, at first and you have to fact check them. (20:22 - 20:38) So I, I asked it about the quote in Clifford Sifton volume two, cause I knew it was there and it gave me the right, the right information. Um, I've got some other books that it referenced here and I'd go back. I don't do it anymore, but I, I'll check some of them for the really critical stuff, but it's, it's pretty darn accurate for the most part. (20:39 - 21:05) Yeah. And I think also the thing with AI is that like the better it gets is also just when you start giving it more information in the sense where, cause like we know our friend, our good friend, Matthew Ehret, who's like one of our favourite historians. He's written a lot of, um, works actually talking a lot about what you were mentioning about the, kind of like the British hold, um, on Canada when it was first kind of like first at inception, basically, the BNA act. (21:05 - 21:33) And then he kind of follows that trail and he expands it like way larger in the sense of how it has played in, even to the United States system, actually, to this day, how that played into World War II, which is lots, lots of different, um, what basically like what it was, uh, all roads lead to Rome where it's like now all roads lead to London in that sense. So he kind of goes and he, and he did a lot of research again, not with AI cause at the time it wasn't even, it wasn't even created. Right. (21:33 - 22:00) So that was just him doing his own thing. And like, I don't know if even people like his work or his books is in that data system because you have to figure out how, what specific resources are being even pulled into that data system. And like, do you have to allow it to get ahold of that? Can it actually read all, all of these like books that maybe are out there written by what you would call amateurs in the sense where it's just like, it's not necessarily like expert opinion or whatever the heck, right. (22:01 - 22:07) That would depend on the AI too, right? I feel like that's where you would need to factor that in. Well, yeah. Cause yeah. (22:07 - 22:25) And again, it's looking for patterns, right? Yeah. And different ones will pick up on cause deep seek versus grok versus chat GPT, you can, there's different responses because they've were made by different people and people have different cultures, meaning different values. So that's something to consider too. (22:25 - 23:00) We did an interview with, um, a mayoral candidate grant prior and he brought up the concerns about AI, how thinking it would, you know, basically take over the human race and replace us. And we were saying kind of what you're saying that it'll do what you train it to do. So if you take somebody like a Mark Carney or your Fauci's, your Bill Gates, you take somebody like that, your Elon Musk's, their AI is not going to be the same as one that was developed by Xi or Putin. (23:00 - 23:31) They got a different cultural mindset. So even what you did immediately with grok putting in the human value, that is, that's the human imprint that you have put upon it that not all AI will have because somebody like a Bill Gates who doesn't really have a human bone in his body, he won't put that in his AI, you know? So that's something people also have to consider cause it is what you put into it. And each person has their own hemisphere bias and you're going to implicitly put that in whatever programme that you use it for. (23:32 - 23:53) So it's not that AI inherently is going to destroy the world because if you have a different values set, then you're not going to put that within the AI to inherently destroy you. That's, that's how, that's how programmes work. But I will, I will point out right now at this very moment that AI could 100% destroy the world. (23:54 - 24:06) At this could do that. Yeah, 100%. Because we have people like the technocracies that have unfortunately really been climbing. (24:06 - 24:28) We haven't done, not enough people knew about their bad intentions early enough. So we have a lot of people in the United States and Canada where the technocratic values and all of with, you know, the wearables, that culture has really rised. And AI has linked largely towards that people because those people developed it. (24:28 - 24:40) There are AIs that might not do that. But we do have, like you're saying, the AIs right now, they're in the hands of the people that would very much push the nuke button. Yeah. (24:40 - 25:04) Like I said to Maddie, I was like, I feel like if you wanted to figure out how to best defeat AI, what you would have to do is use other AI and also humans isn't like you would have to pair. The analogy was how did the person who defeated basically the AI system that was like the best chess playing system because it knew all the different moves and like the best chess player in the world couldn't beat the system. It was like, I just can't figure it out. (25:04 - 25:11) And what happened was that it paired it. The chess player made their own AI systems. They paired themselves with that AI system. (25:11 - 25:30) And then together they beat the system that it was trying that they were trying to be in the first place. So I'm just like, if we actually are like, kind of if it worse comes to worse, and it comes to that, we're going to have to probably pair up with AI to do like the whole fire, like fire and fire approach. You've seen Avatar, right? Yeah. (25:31 - 25:41) Remember those birds, the birds that were in the beginning, they were dangerous. And they were like, you know, you could, they could kill you and stuff like that. And at the end, they mount these birds and they're using them to defeat their enemies. (25:41 - 25:46) Yeah. That's what we need to do with AI. It's not that we need to stop it or, or beat it. (25:46 - 25:54) We need to, we need to break it. Like we break a horse and use it to our benefit. That's what we need to do with it. (25:54 - 26:04) It's just like, you know, people are having these same conversations hundreds of years ago when things like the printing press were invented. Right. It was, oh, this is gonna, this is evil. (26:04 - 26:14) It's gonna ruin the world. And at one point, even the, the crown of England said that it was illegal for the people to own a printing press. Only the government and the king or the king could have. (26:14 - 26:16) And the church. Because they're so dangerous. Yeah. (26:16 - 26:21) Then radio, same thing. Television, same thing. Internet, same thing. (26:21 - 26:35) Yep. Throughout history, we've, we've been having these conversations and what, what we find is that human beings triumph in that we master what we've created in order to flourish as a species. Right. (26:35 - 26:47) And AI as scary as it is, uh, it really is no different. Just instead of being something you can like touch it's, it's ones and zeros behind your computer screen. That was well said. (26:49 - 27:02) Um, so this is a bit of a shift, but I wanted to kind of ask this question because this is more of a shift towards the Alberta independence kind of question that we were talking about. Oh, back on track. Back on track. (27:02 - 27:22) Cause we were doing a little AI, um, deviation there, which is totally okay. Um, but so you've been in the public sphere now for a while trying to kind of get this message out there to people. And again, we highly encourage people to go check out the Alberta prosperity projects website cause they have a lot of informational resources. (27:22 - 27:35) Me and Maddie, I said to Maddie, I want to do a series on breaking down that financial plan that you, uh, APP has come out with. Cause I really want people I'll make shorts. I'll just, I'll make as much videos as I can to try and get that message out there. (27:35 - 28:23) Like I said, the stuff that was in there, guys, it's not, it's, it's a relatively long ish read, but like, if you took the time just to take 15 minutes every night to maybe read one of the segments, then you'd have it in your head and it's just really valuable information. But so it's very easy to understand. And so since you've been in the public sphere, I wanted to know what is your, um, experience with individuals that are maybe from more rural, um, areas versus people that are more from urban areas and what are kind of some of the differences that you've spotted? And then I guess in addition to that as well would be like, even when we went to the independence rally yesterday, you can kind of tell what kind of a demographic of individuals it's most tailored to. (28:23 - 28:52) And I feel like what has been like the, the struggle, but also the success and trying to, I guess, um, have other different demographics of, uh, individuals try and understand this message as well. So first of all, I gotta ask you, what demographics did you see? Am I allowed to say like white people? I would say demographics, like I saw a lot of different age groups actually, which is great. That was surprising. (28:52 - 29:05) That was surprising. There were a lot of... Because I didn't think that there was actually like a lot of younger people as well that are also interested because I'm, I'm very, very happy when I see, um, older generations that are still in this fight. To me, it's encouraging. (29:05 - 29:33) Like some people are like, oh, it's kind of a little bit like same age group. And it's like, yeah, but they're still trying and they're still fighting and they're doing it for you if you were actually like pulling your head out of your ass and not being so self-centred at our age. But, uh, and then another, uh, I would say the demographic I noticed, like, how do I even like heterosexual whites? Like, I don't know how to say it without being retarded. (29:34 - 29:46) There was certainly more white people than others. Uh, I don't know if they're gay or not. I do know that the, the idea of Alberta independence and the benefits that it brings transcends the colour of your skin for sure. (29:47 - 30:11) Um, why let's start with the, let's start with the rural versus city thing first. So, uh, classically rural Alberta has felt the pains of the inequity between, um, the provinces due to the way the constitution is structured more than those in the city. Farmers, ranchers, oil workers, those types of things. (30:12 - 30:35) Um, the policies directly impact them, um, probably more per person than in the cities. So rural has always felt more, um, on the outside. And so they're more receptive to the message first because we don't get involved in something, especially advocacy until when? Until it affects us, until we feel it and rural felt it. (30:35 - 30:51) That's changing very quickly because now the cities are starting to feel it. They have the, they have unelected, unaccountable bureaucrats from across the world infiltrating their policy in the municipalities, telling them how that they want them to live. And they're starting to feel these things. (30:51 - 31:08) They're starting to feel that their money can't buy what it used to. Uh, they're starting to wonder why, uh, things have become so over-regulated over-taxed, why they can't afford homes, why their schools have 47 kids in the class, these types of things. So they're starting to be affected and they're starting to ask questions and they're starting to come out more. (31:08 - 31:19) Um, the, the meetings that we're having in Edmonton, Calgary and the bigger cities are starting to get much bigger. So that's a bonus. Now onto your question of, you know, the whiteness of the crowd. (31:19 - 31:38) Um, I did see lots of people that weren't white there. Um, I saw some for sure, flamingly gay people there, wonderful Alberta sovereigntists that were there to support the idea of Alberta independence. Um, I saw some people who were, they didn't share my faith, um, but there aren't as many. (31:38 - 31:53) And the reason for that is advocacy usually starts in a community, you know? So it's, it's, it's one community. We're separated by nationality in this province, just like anywhere else. Like we have entire areas of cities that are brown people. (31:53 - 32:02) We have entire areas that are white people or whatever, but they tend to stick together because that's their people. They have, they're culturally aligned with those people. So they stick together. (32:02 - 32:21) But if you, in the individual conversations, I'm finding that's changing. So I have a convenience store and I always have people coming through wanting to sell me things. And most of them are East India, like probably 95% because they're entrepreneurs, they work hard and they want to make something of themselves. (32:21 - 32:27) So they're there all the time trying to sell their stuff. They're Alberta sovereigntists. I have these conversations with everybody. (32:28 - 32:39) And you know what they say? They say, we need something to change. And yeah, Chris, I think independence is the answer. And I, we need something to change because I came to this country 15 years ago from India. (32:40 - 32:46) This is a fellow I just talked to a couple weeks ago. For opportunity, because it's free. Nobody bothers me for my religion. (32:46 - 32:49) I don't bother people for their religion. We just work hard. We flourish. (32:49 - 33:03) We prosper together. And he's saying, what I'm seeing now is it's not that Canada anymore. And he complained about the amount of people coming from India to Canada, an Indian man. (33:04 - 33:12) And it's not because he's racist. This isn't, it's, and as a matter of fact, the term racism is complete crap anyway. There's no such thing as races. (33:12 - 33:19) We are a human race. Some of us look different, but there's no such thing as different races. So this man, and I had this conversation. (33:20 - 33:33) He's like, yeah, I came to this country for this. I wanted to be Canadian and look and not look like Canadian, but act Canadian because Canada, the way that was built is what, how I wanted to live. So I want to fit in and assimilate. (33:33 - 33:44) And he said, and these punks, they're coming over here and they're trying to impose the stuff that came from the shithole they left. And they're ruining it for me. And they're ruining it for my family and my kids. (33:44 - 33:51) And we need to stop this. So even they want independence now because we had that conversation. He's going to go back into his community. (33:52 - 34:06) That probably a lot of them are share those kinds of concerns. And he's going to share that message too. So we got to break down that idea that the barrier of race and start looking at each other as, as human beings. (34:06 - 34:31) Now, this also goes into the, uh, the, the conversation about like treaty Indians, about first nations people. Why are we still looking at these things as a, as a separate race? We're all human race. Why are we looking at each other as separate when we should be focussing on how do we move to prosperity and flourish together? And, uh, and it is changing. (34:31 - 34:56) Um, one of the reasons why there is usually, I won't, I'm not even gonna say usually, but in this case of the rally, there's way more white people than not is because we're still mostly white people. So there is that, but, uh, it's, it's, it's not a white and brown thing. It's literally a, you know, do we want to start acknowledging the truth and find solutions to these problems or not? No, and I'm glad that like you touched on that. (34:56 - 35:31) Cause that was mainly like, even when me and Maddie were doing our municipal election interviews, cause we were interviewing people who were running to run for city council, right? We interviewed, um, or for school board trustee, trustee, right? It's like, we interviewed people who came from different places into Canada expecting a better life for themselves. Right. And if they're attuned, then they're like, what they've been noticing is the same patterns that even us living here for, I mean, I've been here my entire existence, right? But for those who have just are now are like, this is our home and we've been here the whole time. (35:31 - 35:46) They're noticing that, Hey, like this Canada that is like, when I came here, that it was glorified to be this sort of like freedom hub where I can go after my dreams and I can prosper. Right. It's, it almost feels very similar to the country that I just left. (35:46 - 35:50) Like I just came from. Right. And they're going back. (35:51 - 36:13) This guy was saying that a lot of his friends have gone back to India. Because India has gotten so much better and Canada has gotten so much worse. And I don't think, and that's the sad part that it's, it's really hard to try and get most people, let alone whatever ethnicity you are to understand that Canada is like not a, I guess what first world country as we're, as we're always like praised for being. (36:13 - 36:43) It's like, no, there's now countries are actually starting to come up on their own and prosper, which is a good thing. We should be encouraging all of our fellow neighbours around the world to try and bring boost themselves up. And so it's just like, if they're going back, because even India, for example, is getting off their feet a bit better than it's just like, wow, guys, like we, you have to understand since when was it ever going to be considered that we were just going to stay in one place where we weren't going to have to try and figure out how to kind of get with the times in the sense. (36:43 - 36:54) And I don't mean like just trends. I mean, like actually try and understand like what's the economics policies that are coming out all around the world and what's working for different groups versus what's working for us. Right. (36:54 - 37:01) Because what we might be in might not be working anymore. Right. That's understanding a broken system is understanding it needs to be updated. (37:02 - 37:08) Well, we've squandered our gift. That's the reality. We've squandered the gift that made it so that other people wanted to be here. (37:09 - 37:31) When you hear people are starting to leave and go back to their countries of origin because of what Canada is doing to itself, it really makes you stop and think like, what have we done to the greatest country on earth to make it get to the point where it's not people don't think that anymore. And then whose fault is it? Well, it's our fault. And you take responsibility, pick yourself back up and then get back to work and fix it. (37:32 - 37:57) Right. Yeah. Now, with that being said, I mean, I want earlier we alluded to if you wanted to update us on kind of the whistle stop cafe, because one thing that we didn't actually allude to very much was like your business journey, because you are a businessman and you weren't just handing out coffees, but you've also done Thanksgiving dinners for people that couldn't afford it. (37:57 - 38:14) Like, so, you know, because I want people to go to your website, the whistle stop cafe, you got your blog. People can support you via all these means, get merch to support our movements, Canada movements. Don't worry about it right now. (38:14 - 38:23) Hey, good to know. Because I tried to ship a Conway pin to Australia through Pure Later and they wanted $175. So I was a cashier. (38:23 - 38:52) Dang, dang. That's nice. But what's the what's the situation currently? And what's your journey with your cafe at the moment? And then how can people support you on your journey? And then where do you want people to go to keep in touch with your constant advocacy? Well, here's the cold, hard truth. (38:53 - 39:23) The whistle stop cafe ceased to be a business for me when people started to walk through the front doors and burst into tears because of what the place meant to them. It was no longer a business. Um, when the government put me in handcuffs for protesting, when they put a chain on the door and stole my property, um, I gave up on the idea of that being my path to prosperity and my retirement. (39:23 - 39:33) And I said, if they're going to destroy me, then screw them. I'm just going to throw caution to the wind. So, you know, from from that time, and actually there's a little bit more to it. (39:33 - 39:48) I went through that and then I was acquitted. And then it was like, OK, well. Now I've accumulated hundreds of thousands of dollars of tax liability, um, you know, and the CRA, they're good to work with. (39:48 - 40:03) I mean, they're pleasant people and they get it and and I'm I'm OK in that regards. But it wasn't all roses. Um, I decided, like, if I'm going to lose my business, I'm going to do everything I can to make as big of impact as I can. (40:04 - 40:17) So I sacrificed the future of my business. I sold both of my houses, put all of the money from both of those houses into the business to keep it going and decided this is the hill I die on. And I'm just going to give it my all. (40:17 - 40:25) And it's in God's hands and whatever. I'll store up treasures in the next life. So then I was acquitted. (40:26 - 40:33) And it's like this massive realisation. Oh, crap. Now I have to figure out how to get out of this hole. (40:33 - 40:49) The only reason why I was able to keep the whistle stop was because a very, very kind man, an immigrant from Switzerland, showed up at the whistle stop one day. Actually, he bugged me. He called me for a few weeks and he said in his thick accent, Chris, I want to help you. (40:50 - 40:56) I can't do a split sec. I want to buy you. I'm going to buy you cases of burgers and you do some barbecuing and raise some money or whatever. (40:56 - 41:07) Then he's like, you know, I've got this tax problem. I made a lot of money over the years and I don't want to give it to that arsehole in Ottawa. So I want to give it away. (41:07 - 41:30) So, you know, if you can find me tax receipts, I'll help whoever I can with whatever I can. And the guy's like millions, right? So eventually he found out the situation around the mortgage that I ended up getting when I did the fundraiser, raised enough money to put a big down payment. I got a mortgage from the vendor, not through a bank, like personal mortgage from them, but the rate was high. (41:30 - 41:40) The term, the term was short and it was a really high payment that I couldn't afford. He found out about it. He cut me a check for the entire amount of the mortgage and he said, pay me back when you can. (41:41 - 41:49) Oh, wow. Can you believe that? So, you know, I still have that debt. I've got the CRA liability, which of course I'm going to pay it. (41:51 - 42:05) And I, the business has become something more than a business. It's still, it's been years and still people show up and they're like, I've been trying to come here for three years or two years, whatever. A lady showed up today. (42:05 - 42:17) I've been trying to come here for two years for my birthday. It's my birthday dinner. People, they still cry when they look at the wall and they see pictures of the picker truck and pictures of Tamara on there. (42:17 - 42:37) The I stand with Chris and Tamara thing, the cards that were on my truck in Ottawa, they burst into tears and share their stories. I'm like, oh man, I can't, my exit plan was the value of the real estate. So I accumulated debt until I thought, okay, well this is the amount that I can recover out of this property. (42:37 - 42:42) That's my exit plan. At least I can be at zero, no problem. I went past that because of this. (42:43 - 42:55) And then I thought, well, okay, then I have to sell the place to, so that I can get my head above water and breathe again. But I don't want to do that because it's not a business anymore. It's a place, it's a thing, it's a, it's a destination for people. (42:55 - 43:09) It means something more to people than coffee and hamburgers. So I decided if I have to sell it so that I can get my head above water, maybe I'll sell it to everybody. And so I had some conversations with some people. (43:09 - 43:26) I read through some legislation and I figured out that we could start a co-op. We could register a co-op. And the goal of the co-op, the mission of the co-op would be to basically use the whistle stop to feed people, not only food, but freedom. (43:27 - 43:31) And we formed this co-operate. Now it's at Service Alberta. They're going through it. (43:31 - 43:59) The bureaucrats are looking at all the bylaws and stuff, and they're going to come back and say, you got to change this, whatever. But the idea is everybody who believes in what that place is, everybody who loves what it stands for, and even people that want to invest some cash and, and, you know, have a little bit of return on it can buy part of it through the co-op, just like UFA or just like co-op, you know, uh, co-op food stores, co-op gas stations, whatever. But this will be the whistle stop co-op owned by the people that believe in it. (43:59 - 44:10) So that means that I can sell to the co-op. The co-op will own it. The people that love the whistle stop will legitimately, legally own part of the business. (44:10 - 44:20) I will no longer own it, but I can get myself out of the debt that I'm in. I can settle my debts. I can feel good knowing that I kept my word and I paid what I'm supposed to pay. (44:20 - 44:37) And I can do it quicker than 20 years because to be honest, I don't have 20 years to pay those things back. And like, I can work hard, pay those things back. It's a profitable business, but there's other things I want to do. (44:37 - 44:53) I need to be on the road speaking for the Alberta Prosperity Project. I need to be going and speaking at conferences and telling people how to be civically engaged. I need to use every tool that I can to make sure that our future is as prosperous and great as it could be, as I know it can be. (44:53 - 45:02) And that means that I can't spend six or seven days a week anymore at the Whistle Stop cooking. I have to be out. That means that I have to be out from under that debt. (45:02 - 45:16) And I need a team of people that believe in it, that will help me run that place. The board of directors of the co-op will be responsible for hiring somebody like me to operate. They'll be responsible for deciding if they're going to pay the parking lot or upgrade equipment or all those types of things. (45:16 - 45:34) And I'm freed of that burden so that I can do the advocacy stuff that I thought I would honestly, I thought I'd be doing it full time right now, broke because I had lost my business. So in a nutshell, that's what it is. I want to get out from underneath the debt that I've incurred during COVID. (45:34 - 46:02) And by the way, I'm also the class, a lead plaintiff in a class action lawsuit with Rath and Company, my lawyer, Jeff Rath and Eva Chipiuk, suing the government of Alberta for what they did to small business. Because it wasn't just me that incurred debt. The average business, the average business in Alberta from the period of 2020 to 2023 incurred $185,000 in COVID debt, $185,000. (46:02 - 46:11) We see the effects of this to this day. The bulletproof glass in front of the thing. We see all the COVID crap that's all over the restaurant stall that people spent hundreds of thousands of dollars. (46:13 - 46:25) So I deal with that. I settle my debts and I get on to doing what I want to do with my life. And it's changed now. (46:25 - 46:38) I don't want to just invest in businesses and earn money. Now I want to literally change the world. So I'm hoping that the people that love the Whistle Stop and believe in it will appreciate this idea and want to do it as well. (46:39 - 46:54) That was a wonderful way of coming full circle because we started with your journey and we're ending with your journey, which is neither ending because this is just a podcast and you are still. I was going to say that sounds like it's just beginning. Right? Exactly. (46:54 - 47:00) This is just the transition. Whistle Stop Cafe. Don't buy the merch right now. (47:03 - 47:11) You can buy it at the store. You can contact him personally. He's been on many, many, many podcasts. (47:11 - 47:22) You can also go and get more information there. Make donation at his podcast. And then join the Alberta Prosperity Project because that is something all of us, even I currently need to renew our membership. (47:23 - 47:36) That's on my to-do list. So thank you so much for coming on and not just being an Alberta royalty member. I shouldn't even say Alberta royalty because that does injustice to you. (47:37 - 47:53) And also, I don't know, royalty, right? Now that we know what we know, is that really the right word? No. You are the hard-earned iron rigger that you have always started and that's amazing. You mentioned I worked on the rigs and there's a funny story there. (47:53 - 48:10) My tool push, I thought he hated me, but he was just making sure that I learned right. He really heard on me. I was the dumb BCF for like the first year, but he used to scream at me from the dog house, Scott, you keep it up. (48:10 - 48:20) You're going to be flipping burgers. That's hilarious. It's something at the right place. (48:20 - 48:28) And you're all the better for it. You are. Everything you have done in your lifetime thus far has been like serving the community. (48:28 - 48:36) I know you in your speech, you were saying, shame on me. I should have been involved sooner. And I completely, I mean, my family should have been involved sooner too. (48:36 - 48:51) But from rigging and now feeding people food, which is not, that is not something to be taken for granted, especially as food restrictions. And they try and take our animals and try and ship our chickens to the east. Like all of this stuff is something that it's going on. (48:51 - 49:19) It's just going to get harder and still serving people so they can have a stupid Thanksgiving turkey dinner. And it's the same thing why we appreciate our farmers so much because they are working hard trying to serve people something they need to live to do whatever it is that their passions call them to do. So thank you so much for serving the Alberta and Canada community in everything you've done, like between your information and then just your occupations. (49:19 - 49:33) You are, Maycee said bonding, you know, because you're a rigger, but you're just a genuinely good human being, which is my mom. Fangirls every time we see you, even though we see you once a year for hunting. So thank you so much. (49:33 - 49:47) And thank you for giving us your time because you are a very, very busy man. And we'll have to have you on again sometime because two podcasts is not enough for someone like you who's always updating. Just I'm very, very, very grateful. (49:48 - 49:52) Anytime. And thank you. I appreciate that. (49:53 - 50:16) Although, you know, full disclosure, I spent the first 30 years, 35, almost 40 years of my life serving myself. I came to work in Alberta because I heard there was good money on the rigs and I wanted to buy DVD players and leather coaches at the time. It wasn't until things started affecting me that I got involved. (50:17 - 50:28) And, you know, now once you see those things and you feel those things, you can't unsee them and you can't unfeel them and you have to do the right thing. So that's, you know, that's where I'm at. Amen. (50:28 - 50:33) I love that. I do. I know it's amen, but I want to say like you got to say your thank you. (50:33 - 50:59) I want to say my thank you. My thank you was going to be something that you hit home yesterday at the rally that just kind of really spoke to me was you said that this independence movement might be one of the most single, most important things that you're like speaking for you, but also a lot of the people there that we're ever going to do in our life. And then I thought, aside from maybe having like children, but I feel like they're both hand in hand together. (50:59 - 51:30) And I felt like it just really rings true because it was just, it was a whole encompassment of just how important it is to want to fight for your sovereignty, not just as an individual, but then as a community. And like you said, it's just when you do start out, like a lot of us have in that self-centred and something that was very appreciated at the rally as well. I think it might've been Mitch Sylvestre that might've said this where it's like, I'm going to maybe have to drop down a couple of hockey games so that way we can attend a couple more rallies and have a bit more conversations. (51:30 - 51:59) I mean, like that to me is just exactly what I am inspired to see and what our family, we had, we gave up hockey a long time ago so we could keep educating ourselves. And I just, I appreciate that in the sense of just like how it's not really much of a, it's a sacrifice it is, but it's also not much of a sacrifice when you find that what it is that you feel like it's that line from Gladiator where it's like, most of the time I do what I have to do, not really what I want to do. Right. (51:59 - 52:11) But we, I feel like this is us finding a way to kind of go like what it is that we need to do is exactly what we want to be doing. Like, and I feel like I feel exactly like that. And I'm, and I know that you do too. (52:11 - 52:29) And so I just want to say thank you so much for embodying that though too, because not a lot of people understand the value of what it means to actually finally be in that place. And I'm so grateful that you are literally one of the figures trying to walk that path and it is very, very inspirational. So thank you so much. (52:30 - 52:32) Oh, you're welcome. Thank you. I appreciate that. (52:33 - 52:39) Okay. Well, with that, I'm not going to cry. Without further ado, this has been Holmes Squared.