Babies Deserve More Protection Than Vaccine Makers, Aaron Siri Tells Joe Rogan

3 hours ago

Originally posted by: Children's Health Defense

Vaccine policy should prioritize protecting babies, not vaccine manufacturers, attorney Aaron Siri said on “The Joe Rogan Experience.”

“Our babies are so precious, are so important,” Siri said. “We want to make sure we have the safest possible product you could have.”

Siri said vaccine policy often protects the immunization program itself rather than prioritizing safety. “They’ll say vaccines are so important, we got to give them this immunity,” he said. “No. In fact, quite the opposite.”

Siri, author of “Vaccines, Amen: The Religion of Vaccines,” said he once held what he described as the “mainstream” view that “vaccines saved humanity.”

He compared the cultural status of vaccines to sacred doctrine. “There was the Bible given to Moses at Sinai, and then there were vaccines,” he said.

Siri changed his position after years of reviewing regulatory documents and litigating against federal agencies like the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS).

He said challenging vaccine policy is hard because it triggers “incredible cognitive dissonance” by forcing people to face the idea that “our public health authorities … may not be accurate about vaccines.”

Immunity means ‘vaccines really sit in their own little universe’

At the center of Siri’s argument is the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986, which shields vaccine manufacturers from most injury lawsuits.

“Vaccines really sit in their own little universe,” Siri said. “They’re not like any other drugs. They’re not like any other product out there … for one major reason. Every other product that exists, I can sue the company. I can hold them accountable.”

Childhood vaccines are “the only product in America where you cannot sue to say, ‘Had you made that product safer, my child wouldn’t be dead,’” he added.

Removing liability eliminated a key driver of product safety, he said.

In most industries, lawsuits push companies to improve their products. Companies redesign exploding gas tanks or remove asbestos when it causes cancer. “It’s the economic self-interest of the company” that drives those changes, he said.

Congress took a different path with vaccines.

“Leading up to 1986, there were only three routine vaccines. That’s it,” Siri said. A child following the CDC vaccine schedule at the time received three injections.

According to Siri, lawsuits over those products pushed several manufacturers to leave the market. Instead of requiring safer designs, Congress granted vaccine makers broad immunity.

“Give an industry 40 years of unopposed ability to influence, they’re going to get pretty dang far,” he said.

Today, updated CDC guidance recommends vaccines against 11 childhood diseases, and many medical groups and states are pushing to expand that list.

‘You’re telling me they still don’t know it’s safe enough to lift that immunity?’

Siri also addressed the clinical testing used to license many childhood vaccines.

Most drugs undergo multiyear placebo-controlled trials before approval so companies can evaluate safety, he said.

“In contrast, for most childhood vaccines, instead of years, it’s often days or weeks of safety review in the clinical trial relied upon to license them,” Siri said.

Drug companies typically protect themselves from lawsuits in two ways: by making products as safe as possible and by fully warning consumers of risks.

“Why can’t they do that with vaccines?” he asked.

Nearly four decades after Congress granted liability protection, Siri questioned why the industry still needs it.

“You’re telling me they still don’t know it’s safe enough to lift that immunity?” he asked. “You’re giving it to millions of kids a year. You’re making billions of dollars on the sales of this product, and you still don’t know it’s safe enough to lift that immunity?”

‘When their back was to the wall, they had nothing’

Siri also challenged claims that vaccines do not cause autism.

Beginning in 2019, he filed Freedom of Information Act requests and a lawsuit seeking studies showing that vaccines administered in the first six months of life — such as hepatitis B (Hep B) and DTaP — do not cause autism.

“Provide us the studies,” he said. The CDC “never gave us the studies. I sued them in federal court.”

According to Siri, the agency eventually produced a list of studies, but none addressed vaccines given during early infancy.

“When their back was to the wall, they had nothing,” he said. “They could not produce one that showed the vaccines given in the first six months of life do not cause autism.”

He said public messaging about the issue differs sharply from what the underlying data show.

“They tell you it’s thoroughly debunked. Thoroughly studied. The most studied thing ever,” Siri said. “But then when you demand it … that’s the result.”

He also referenced a deposition with vaccinologist Dr. Stanley Plotkin, saying Plotkin initially believed studies existed disproving the link. However, Plotkin said he would still reassure parents about vaccines’ safety even after learning the supporting data did not exist.

Even artificial intelligence tools repeat similar claims, Siri added.

“I’ve had ChatGPT make up studies,” he said. When pressed to identify the research, “I will get it to admit. It takes … 45 minutes to an hour,” but it eventually acknowledges that no studies are debunking the link.

Vaccine supporters “say on TV it’s thoroughly debunked, but I’m telling you that is a belief … not science,” Siri said.

Measles mortality fell ‘over 98%’ before vaccine was introduced

Siri cited measles data to dispute the widespread notion that everyone in America would “die without vaccines.”

Before the measles vaccine, the U.S. recorded “about 400” measles deaths a year — roughly “1 in 450,000 Americans,” he said.

Mortality fell “over 98%” between 1900 and the early 1960s, before the vaccine was introduced. Siri attributed the drop to improvements in sanitation, nutrition and medical care.

He also emphasized the durability of natural immunity.

“If you’ve had measles, you’re done. … You’ll never get measles again,” he said. This isn’t true of the measles shot, which is administered as a part of the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine.

“That’s why when there’s a measles outbreak, a lot of times you’ll hear a call to even have folks who are older get the measles vaccine again,” he said.

He also cited research suggesting natural infection may correlate with lower long-term mortality from certain health risks, including cardiovascular disease, non-Hodgkin lymphoma and ovarian cancer.

“The data is the data,” he said. With evidence in hand, he argued, people don’t have to “live in the world of believing.”

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Threatening people’s jobs over vaccination ‘no different than school mandates’

Rogan noted that vaccine information has become more accessible as some social media platforms roll back COVID-19-era censorship policies.

Siri said the censorship itself was “mind-jarring.” But what disturbed him even more was how quickly Americans accepted sweeping government mandates.

“They didn’t say, ‘We recommend you stay in your houses.’ They didn’t say, ‘We recommend you get this vaccine.’ … They said, ‘Stay in your house,’” Siri said.

He expected “pitchforks.” Instead, he saw compliance.

“Here comes a virus, and every right you have is basically taken away. And Americans were like, ‘Take it. Take it away.’ That is what outraged me,” he said.

For Siri, the response raised concerns about individual liberty.

“You should be able to choose your destiny, including what risks you want to take,” he said. “Individual rights come with risks. … But the greater risk is always ceding that right to the government.”

However, he argued that the COVID-19 response didn’t represent a sharp break from the past.

Nothing said by health officials during COVID was “some giant leap into some new territory. To me, it’s just another natural step in progression from where we’ve gone over the last 40 years with vaccines,” he said.

Threatening people’s jobs over vaccination “is no different than school mandates,” according to Siri.

At its core, Siri believes authorities cannot tolerate even small pockets of refusal.

“They can’t take that a 2, 3, 4% just will not take these products,” he said. “They cannot stand that somebody is not agreeing with their beliefs.”

Even people who support every vaccine, every mask and every mandate should defend the principle of choice, he argued. He said:

“You’re 17, you’re 18, you’re totally healthy, no coorbidities, and you want to get a vaccine a day, wear 70 masks, and live in your basement and self-imposed stay-at-home order? This is America. … I’ll fight for your right to do that. And you’re 90 and you’re a war veteran and … you have 16 comorbidities and you want to go to the coffee shop with no vaccine and no mask? You should be free to do that because that’s America, too. That’s freedom also.”

When debate shuts down, ‘that’s when you know you’re dealing with religion’

Siri framed the issue as a test of what counts as science.

“The whole idea is it’s never settled,” he said. In his view, real scientific confidence invites scrutiny and debate. When discussion shuts down, “that’s when you know you’re dealing with religion, not science.”

Many people rely on assurances rather than digging into source documents themselves, according to Siri.

“They’ve never looked at the primary sources. So when you challenge them with evidence, what can they draw from? The intellect? No, they draw from their emotions. They draw from their feelings. And that’s why they get angry,” he said.

For Siri, belief has its place — but it’s not here.

“I save my beliefs for religion, the unanswerables,” he said. “Where do we go when we die, right? And so forth. I have to take a leap of faith, and I do it when I need to. But you don’t need to with these products.”

Watch Siri on ‘The Joe Rogan Experience’ here: