SUMMARY KEYWORDS people, cbc, church, bishop, catholic, archbishop, mandate, catholic church, policies, archdiocese, government, priest, bob, pope, faith, freedom, hear, years, abortion, interview SPEAKERS Bob DuBroy, Will Dove   Will Dove  00:00 A couple of weeks ago, I interviewed Robert Dubroy from Ottawa on his research into paramedic deaths in Canada. And talking with Bob, I discovered he also had unique insights to share on two of our fundamental freedoms, freedom of speech, and freedom of religion. Bob worked for the CBC for 10 years from the mid 80s, to the mid 90s, and reveals how even then the CBC was essentially government funded state media, and how what journalistic integrity they did have then has completely vanished in recent years.  In addition, Bob also spent nine years as a communications director for the Archdiocese of the Catholic Church in Ottawa, and shares his thoughts on how the church has completely failed to uphold the faith of its adherence. And in so doing, has failed society as a whole. Even if you were not religious, I urge you to watch this full interview. Freedom of speech and freedom of religion are inextricably linked, one cannot be attacked without attacking the other. And it provides a unique perspective to hear from someone who has an intimate working knowledge of both. Bob, it's a pleasure to have you back on the show. You now be here when when we were discussing it. And this was very interesting to me when we were talking about a month ago, and you had originally approached me with your data about the paramedics. And we got into a long discussion, because I wanted to talk to you and find out how you'd gotten all that data. Yes, folks, I do do my homework, and found that Bob had done his homework. It's in which I was very comfortable presenting that data to you. But Bob and I had a long discussion about his experiences over the years with both the CBC and the Catholic Archdiocese in Ottawa. And those discussions were very revealing. And so I've asked Bob to come back. So we can talk about those things, now in an interview, where you can hear the things that he told me. Bob, I want to start with your experiences with the CBC, you were with them for 10 years, please explain when and in what capacity   Bob DuBroy  02:06 I was there between 1986 and 1996, beginning with essentially Human Resources Management at head office, and then moving on to program rights clearance and head office.   Will Dove  02:18 And so during the time, just bet that without moving on to your perceptions of what's happening to the media since,   Bob DuBroy  02:24 Right   Will Dove  02:25 During the time that you were there, what was the culture like?   Bob DuBroy  02:28 Well, working in human resources, and also in program rights, gave me a view of the whole operation, I was able to visit the Toronto Broadcast Center quite a bit. And I went to Montreal, I've been to hearings before the CRTC before copyright tribunals. So I was able to have a perception of what we're doing in programming and what we're doing in policy. And at the time, I think there was a real desire to be as professional as possible. We had journalism policies that were quite elaborate. I mentioned too, we had a whole wall of policies, many binders, covering every subject from A to Z. And journalism was certainly given a lot of attention.  Journalistic ethics, and a buddy of mine was working in the area of commercial clearance. So even advertisement had to meet some criteria, some ethical criteria to get onto the CBC. So this was all laudable. This is all wonderful. Naturally, it was publicly funded organization. So a lot of the people within the box and other corporates were culturally, that way. They didn't come from private enterprise necessarily.  In private broadcasting, you might know a lot of people who rise into management come through the sales stream. So they sell commercials, they sell advertisement spots, and they have a real idea for what's going on in the private sector, and what's going on in the economy. So they know, when things are not moving so well. Commercials don't move so well. And then you have to pitch Well, if you want to get through this recession, you're going to want to advertise your wares so that it changes the pitch, whereas CBC was mostly isolated from that and overtime, I think that that just got worse, just like our universities are drifting further and further to the left. The CBC did as well.   Will Dove  04:21 So you're saying I'm sorry, I'm sorry to jump in. But you're saying the CBC was isolated from that, from that sort of necessity to do business like everybody else was? Because back then  they were funded by the government as well.   Bob DuBroy  04:33 Yes, there was a solid billion dollars a year that was earmarked by a parliamentary appropriation for the CBC. And whether the CBC performed well or not, they still got that cheque. I don't,   Will Dove  04:47 I don't want to jump ahead to where we are now. But I have to ask this question, to put this in perspective. You're saying you're talking about from 86 to 96. You were there, and there's a billion dollars a year set aside for the CBC. Well, that's basically The figure that we've got Trudeau giving to them now that everybody's up in arms about sorry, but are you telling me that things haven't really changed that much?   Bob DuBroy  05:06 It's about 1.4 billion now. Yeah, it has changed, but it hasn't kept pace with inflation. So while I was there, there were layoffs while I was there, there were cutbacks, like they cut back, radio, radio Canada International, they cut back a lot of things. And they tried to get into more revenue generating endeavors. But still, going from 1 billion then to 1.4 billion today was not enough to keep pace with inflation. So it is, in some ways, a smaller operation than it was then.   Will Dove  05:36 I just want to clarify something now, because I have to confess I, myself was unaware of this. And I'm a little bit younger than you. But I've certainly, you know, I was I was well out of high school. But in the years that you were at the CBC that you're talking about, and I wasn't aware that they were getting fed a billion dollars a year back then. So what you're telling me is 35 years ago, the CBC was not a viable business in and of its own, doesn't survive without that injection from the government.   Bob DuBroy  06:02 Well, the whole point was to represent Canadian culture. And it was thought that Canadian culture couldn't be sustainable without public funding. In the US, there are three major TV networks, maybe a fourth, if you count Fox, we had three TV networks in Canada, on the English side and on the three French language, TV networks, how can we have that was a 10th of the population, there had to be public money involved. And that's, that was the situation. So the CBC every year, the budget, the real dollar budget would shrink a little bit. And so something got axed. And we used to have programming that was local to different regions in Canada, that eventually got axed back to the point where all we have today is the local news. We used to have cultural programming in all these places. We used to have some programming that fit into the whole network that came out of Halifax, or that came out of Vancouver, a lot less so now.  Anyway, that's the the CBC situation. I was at one business meeting at the CBC, and I raised my hand, I said, Well, can we just acknowledge that what we're trying to do is manage decline? We're in a managed shrinkage things. This is, but they were in denial. No, we could have a bigger appropriation next year, we don't know. So no, we're not going to say that. But every year it got smaller, well, not smaller, but it's smaller in real dollars. If the state fixed at a billion, it still meant the inflation of the day, which might have been eight or 10%, was not being accommodated. So we had to try to sell more commercials, which we couldn't on radio, there was a policy that we wouldn't sell commercials on radio, we kept reviewing that to see if that was possible. Try to sell more commercials on TV. But you know what that means? That means the Canadian public broadcaster is competing with local TV stations, for advertising dollars. And we might be undercutting the local station, which meant the local station had less revenue, less money to put into programming, and the programming looked crappier. And the CBC looked great, because we got a billion a year.   Will Dove  08:16 Right. Okay. That's thank you for painting that picture. That's very educational. So   Bob DuBroy  08:22 it's a real life. It's not real life. It's artificial money.   Will Dove  08:26 Right. Now, but you had said something earlier. And I want to jump back because you would talk about policies that you said they were very well written, and that they did certain things, right journalist tickets. And you even said that that applied to things like advertising. So can you recall any specific examples of things back then, that they weren't allowed to report or advertise?   Bob DuBroy  08:46 Well, what they weren't allowed to report was just one side of the news. So on a on a controversial issue, like, let's say abortion, their ethics policy required them to go and speak to a pro life person. Is this true? Is this how you feel? Should the government be funding abortions across the country? And they would get answers they didn't like, but they're bound by the policy to at least give a little exposure to that. The same thing with advertising. Today, you get a lot of ads from the Ontario Lottery Commission. You'll see at any rate, the people who run the lotteries and the horse races and the casinos. Now advertise on CBC and then would not so it's a different era, a lot of the tastes have shifted. And I would think we've made a lot of compromises   Will Dove  09:47 So coming from that insider's view that you had for 10 years. You were deeply ingrained in the CBC, seeing what they were doing there. What are you seeing now what's changed?   Bob DuBroy  09:59 All we have on TV now, on CBC on CBC Radio, are opinion pieces, these are no longer news reports. These are op eds. These are somebody's editorial, that's couched as a news report, because there's a narrative, a narrative that goes along with what happened. Where? Where did COVID come from? What the COVID treatments should be? Should we wear a mask? Should we stay indoors? Stay home, stay safe? Did it come from a lab in Wuhan? Oh, my goodness. What, is the WEF benign? Or do they want to depopulate all of these issues, have a narrative associated with them, that the CBC will not deviate from, to be honest, the same goes for global and CTV. But that's because they're getting millions of dollars in federal funding. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. And I think CBC gets 1.4 billion, so they're not gonna bite the hand that feeds them for sure.   Will Dove  11:06 You've painted this picture is extremely significant, because I studied journalism, right about the same time that you were working for the CBC. And yes, we were, we were taught to be unbiased, present both sides of the story, that's your job, it's not your job to inject your opinion, it's your job to get other people's views and opinions and present them to the public.   Bob DuBroy  11:27 Right.   Will Dove  11:27 And here we are today, where the tagline for my show, for example, is the voice of the counter narrative. And I can't, I can't be unbiased, because I have to try to give a voice to the people they won't give a voice to. And so because they dropped those journalistic ethics of being unbiased, they have of their own actions, divided the media in this country, between the state sponsored media that gives this narrative, and the independent media such as mine, is giving the counter narrative because that's the only way people can get both sides of the story. If you want to post it, now you have to go and listen to the CBC, and then you gotta go listen to my show to get the other side. But that's not the way it's supposed to be.   Bob DuBroy  12:08 No, in fact, that the CRTC policies, the way they're written, is on matters of public concern, there must be balance. Now, there's the argument, is it systemic balance, which means organizations like yours are providing the other point of view? Or does it have to be balanced within each news report? And the theory goes, it should be balanced within each news report. But that has been ignored for the last decade.   Will Dove  12:38 And I would love that, if they could go back to that, if they would do balanced reporting. So would I, I'd be the first person to go, Okay, let's get somebody with this opinion. Somebody at that opinion, let's talk to both of them. And then let people make up their own minds, because that's the way it's supposed to be. The news is not there to tell people what to think, is to give them the information so they can decide for themselves what to think. And yet they're forcing people like me into the situation of presenting this counter narrative, because if I don't do it, people don't hear it.   Bob DuBroy  13:07 Right. So now to exacerbate what's going on the CBC have believes that it has the definitely has the duty to define what a Canadian is. I don't want the CBC telling me what a Canadian is do your poll, but don't do a crazy poll, where it's only your supporters who answer. I don't know if you've noticed a lot of the stuff that's posted now on social media, of comments turned off wherever it's possible. Because the mainstream media don't want to hear back from people they want, don't want to hear your liar. Tell us the truth, or pack up and go home because you're not serving the people.   Will Dove  13:46 And it's funny how fast that's shifted. I'm glad you brought that up. Because when I started doing this kind of thing about a year and a half ago, I had to turn the comments off. Because if I posted it all the Kool Aid drinkers, which just trashes to the point where even me social media that wasn't necessarily being censored, would kill us, because of all the complaints they were getting. Now, all of our social media channels and our website, you can comment, go ahead. And do we sometimes get counter comments to our? Of course we do. That's fine. Your freedom of speech, folks, go ahead. If you don't agree with us, feel free to say so. We're certainly not going to take your comment down because you didn't agree with us. But as you've just said, now we've got the mainstream media who's turned off their comments, because they're gonna get attacked by a public who understands you're lying.   Bob DuBroy  14:33 Yeah. How dare you question us. And they're just exposing themselves for the snowflakes they are. It's tragic, but that's the way it goes. Well funded, but but thin skinned, and then they can't hide the lies anymore. Anyway, as you can tell, we're both very passionate about this.   Will Dove  14:51 We are, and you and I were discussing before the interview about articles that you've been reading and very, very innocuous. you're researching tires to get in tires for your car. Please tell our viewers what you're finding and those articles that doesn't belong there.   Bob DuBroy  15:05 Why is this? Well, it's certainly a few years ago, when I was researching tires, I'm on a like a four year cycle for buying tires. I'm buying tires now, but, but back then reading articles on tires, and when the article two thirds of the way into the article, they bash Donald Trump. What's wrong with this picture, this has no bearing at all on the subject. When I would read the Ottawa Citizen, and I, I know a few things, I don't know everything, but I know a few things. on every single page, I could find something that was factually wrong. Three times three factual errors. I've given up writing to the Editors, letters to the editor, that would be a full time job. And I'm not supposed to do the job of copy editors and, and fact checkers. But it just got to be too much I just heard every week. And to be honest, there may be two columnists now. Only two columnists I really enjoy, because the rest are, how they've drifted so far left, that it's nonsense. And I got tired of the the Trump bashing, and they're saying nothing about Joe Biden, who evidently has dementia. And there's absolutely no question that is his policies are getting dangerously close to the third world war. Not a peep, supposedly a Catholic. This is a joke. What's wrong with this picture? So I just consume alternative media now, because that's that's all I can count on.   Will Dove  16:35 Now, in our previous discussion, too, and this is where we're gonna segue into the second half of this interview, and your experiences in the Archdiocese in Ottawa, in the Catholic Church, and you're inside views there, because one of those tire articles that you're referring to that's trashing Trump appeared in a Catholic publication?   Bob DuBroy  16:51 Well, it was several other articles on different subjects that did not pertain to politics whatsoever. Right. But the pattern was there, two thirds of the way through the article 1/3 of the way the article that they slammed Trump. Why this is in the Catholic register in Canada. It's not even relevant to us. It wasn't relevant to the topic at hand. This is a pattern that's very disconcerting. It gives you the impression that there's a puppet master behind the scenes or there's mass psychosis, that's leading people to write this drivel.   Will Dove  17:32 Now, we started the first half of this interview with you telling our viewers what your experience was at the CBC in order to establish that, yeah, you had a very good inside view there for 10 years. What was your involvement with the Archdiocese in Ottawa?   Bob DuBroy  17:45 I was an editor and writer for this, the Archdiocese for about seven years. And then I joined them on contract for close to two years in the diocese and center as the communications director. And that ended when, at the end of 2020, we'd had a rough year with the pandemic. As the very end of 2020, my contract ended, we had a new Archbishop, who wanted to move things around a bit. And fortunately, I was at retirement age. So for me, it was an easy transition into coming home and taking care of grandkids.   Will Dove  18:20 Right. So but you I just wanted to establish you were once again, you were with the Archdiocese for almost as long as you're with the CBC, nine years. And fortunately, you're able to leave right around about the time of the vaccine roll out. I'm so thankful for that. So I'd like you to like you, once again, for our viewers, many of them are not Catholic, but are certainly going to be sympathetic to what was going on in the Catholic Church as I am. Please tell us what you were seeing there. And what you've seen since even though you've no longer necessarily got that inside view?   Bob DuBroy  18:49 Well, just in general, I would have to say, I see the church, whether Catholic or any other Christian denomination, as a factory for saints. Our mission is to draw people to Christ. And if you're just a warehouse, if it's just get people to sit in the pew for an hour, take their money and send them home Sunday morning. That's way short of the goal. We should be drawing people to holiness, drawing them to virtuous living, and being really good examples of love in this world. If we're not doing that, we're falling short.   Will Dove  19:29 And if I may interject one thing just before you go on, and I do want you to go on, but I know that a lot of our viewers don't necessarily know what you mean when you said St. I know, because I grew up Catholic. I know what you mean by that, but a lot of them don't. So before you continue, please explain that term.   Bob DuBroy  19:43 Well, St. Paul wrote to the saints in his letters. So these aren't people who are dead and buried the church declared saints. Three generations later these are today, people who are walking in holiness today. We're not all called to be Mother Teresa. But we're all called to be something. And we're called to be faithful to God, faithful to Christ, and good servants. And if you're a good servant, you love, you give and you reflect God's love. This is it's not rocket science. But it's not easy because most people have a leaning towards self preservation, all kinds of selfish motives. Anyway, it's a call to holiness. It means trying to listen to God's word,   Will Dove  20:32 Godly to live your faith, to live your Christian faith. And so I interrupted you to get that that explanation. And you were talking about how the church should be a factory for saints. And you were about to get into, I believe, how they're not doing that.   Bob DuBroy  20:49 Right? Well, factory for saints, I went to a diamond factory in Israel. And you get some rough rocks that come in, and they go out as these beautiful jewels. And that's what the church should be try in a rough rock. Let them know that Christ loves them, died for their sins, and that there's a special call in their life. And a big part of your life is what, what does God want to do? And that's how you go out the door Sunday morning at 1158. When you go out the door, it should be this is great and God loves me and I have a job to do now. I have seven days to serve Him and to love my fellow neighbors. Great. Instead, though, you know, diamond factories, is not a diamond factory, but diamond warehouses.  Well, are we a one hour warehouse, so someplace where somebody sits down in the warmth in the winter, and goes out unchanged. So our churches warehouses or factories, it looks like more like a warehouse. The other problem is mandate. The church has a mandate to shape us in holiness. And this is a huge mandate. It's a big part of what it means to be human. The church has no mandate over the economy. It has no mandate over climatology, has no mandate over environmental issues, has no mandate over political issues. Is the border supposed to be opened or closed? No mandate, no authority to comment on those things. If if a bishop or a pope comments on those things that should carry no more weight than my neighbor down the street. But it does, because they have a title. But it's not the title. Chief climatologist or environmental scientists, or chief economist or head of security, it's Bishop or Pope. So we have to know we shouldn't be listening to them. Because they know they don't have a mandate in those areas. Unfortunately, the church is investing huge resources into areas where it's not their business. And I want to clarify something that you've just said, because you're talking about that they don't have that mandate. So I think if we can put that into two more secular terms, what you're saying is, there are no laws or edicts within the Roman Catholic Church, which gives the Pope to right to dictate to the people of the church, that they must follow health mandates, for example, from a government. That's not his job, Those least of all, only to the extent that it has a bearing on morality. And here is the irony. Many really good Catholic theologians discerned that these so called vaccines are tainted because the products of abortions were used in their manufacturer. A and B. It's not theologically acceptable to impose certainly not an experimental medical procedure, but even any medical procedure on an individual, the individual has the right to choose. And that right. Okay, I was talking to a company, somebody from a company a few weeks ago, and I said, Look, you say that your people are 100% vaccinated. I'm saying that's wrong. I want you to send me somebody who isn't vaccinated. And they said, well, the virus staff got vaccinated and they're free to choose. I said, Well, if you threatened to dismiss them, which I would infer from this because 100% of your people supposedly are fully vaccinated, that's not free there's recourse. So you find somebody you laid off and send me that person. So it's not freedom if they're coerced, right, it just, it's people are fooling themselves. But it's not freedom. I think we have to make the point that under what we were just discussing, any bishop or priest has the right to say to the Pope, you don't have the authority to demand that of the people within my church. It comes under the heading of fraternal correction. And there have been that kind of letter. Those kinds of letters sent to the Pope by Archbishop's cardinals, fraternal correction, some of them privately some of them went public. So that is a valid mechanism. And if it's on theology, because this Pope Francis, unfortunately has been very vague and confusing theologically, but on matters of temporal issues, where it's not as jurisdiction, it's been even worse. So yes, fraternal correction. But here is one issue in the church. A lot of the leaders have been chosen on the basis of obedience. So rather than choosing critical thinkers who will become our leaders tomorrow, we have followers. And that's tragic.   Will Dove  26:15 When you say they're being chosen on the basis of obedience is this something that's happening in the seminaries where they're they're graduating, the people who show that they're going to go along with they're told to do and not graduating, the ones who might might raise objections.   Bob DuBroy  26:29 There is less of that today in the seminaries. Although there is some of that, if you go to a good Seminary where there are mature, responsible people in leadership, then there's room for growth. In other seminaries, especially the more left leaning ones, if you don't comply, they'll say, Well, you don't have a vocation. And this is, this is code for, you're not fitting in. Now getting past that, so once you're ordained, and you prove yourself to be a good, obedient priest, you're compliant, and you're helpful to the bishop and you do look like you're really bright, and you go on to get a doctorate in theology, or in canon law or something that doctorate means Oh, well, you're qualified now, conceivably to become a bishop. And if you both have that qualification, and you've been extremely obedient, and never turned down an assignment, and always smiled and said, Yes, Your Grace, this qualifies you potentially to become a bishop.   We have a real shortage of bishops in Canada and bishop candidates, because a lot of Canada, the bishop has to be bilingual, which eliminates a lot of people right out of the box. And in addition to that, they have to have the doctorate, and they have to be obedient. So now we're getting people who aren't necessarily leaders, because they all have to pledge fealty, they have to pledge their obedience and loyalty. I made an oath of, of obedience to my bishop, in the context of being a spiritual director, which is fine, I'm fine with those rules, and I can do that. But in other respects, I have a responsibility, my family have responsibility, you know to get employment and so on. And outside of the, the orbit of my Archbishop, but a priest has completed as to pledge complete loyalty to the Archbishop and, and they become Bishops, Archbishops, and so on. And the Cardinals again, have to pass another test, again, of loyalty to the Pope which was easy in the days of John Paul, the second, we had a pope Pope, who's a wonderful Pope. It was easy. In the days of Pope Benedict, we had a pope was more like a mathematician, his words were so precise, he was so clear that is harder to do.   Will Dove  28:55 Yes. And to clarify that oath of fealty or obediance, when you took it, it's within the context of following the theological precepts that are laid out by the priest and the bishop. So if you're the programming director, what you're saying is, I'm not going to put anything into the programming that does not fit within that theology that you have laid out. But it does not extend to things like you have to go and get vaccinated.   Bob DuBroy  29:22 Well as communications director, that was different. As communications director, I was obviously I had to clear things with division, which was fine. And there was not a whole lot that could have been controversial. We had to deal at one point with a group that was promoting a black mass in Ottawa. So I had to know a little bit about why that's wrong. I was I had an interview on the CBC in French, and they said, Well, are you is the archbishop angry that they're doing this? He said, No, not angry that he's, he's sad because these people obviously have a spiritual thirst. There's But they're looking in the wrong place for answers. And the CBC never heard the end of Europe because it didn't fit their narrative   Will Dove  30:07 Wasn't what they were looking for. Yes, they want it. Like they want it. Yes, yeah.   Bob DuBroy  30:12 But this was this my job to talk to the media, and to give the perspective of the church on different things. So I had some of that I knew a lot of it I had to ask about because I'm not a Canon lawyer. I don't know always all the thoughts of the archbishop. So evidently, I had to reflect those. And I don't have that knowledge. But what I did know was what a strong Catholic should know and I was able to reflect that to a lot of journalists who don't know anything about religion. Right.   Will Dove  30:42 And so once again, I'm sorry, I called you a programming director, I meant a Communications Director, as you've - thank you for correcting me. So another example would be if some mainstream media person asked you for the Church's position on the vaccines, I assume you would answer well, we have a problem with it or should, because they're using cells from aborted babies to create this. Is the abortions a problem in the Catholic Church?   Bob DuBroy  31:10 Yeah. In the course of 2020, I encountered that a little bit. Because there were questions about early on in March of 2020, I was asked, What's the church going to do about this? What are the protocols going to be now? I had the experience of what we dealt with, with avian flu. And it was like a fart in the wind. Nothing happened. So I everything I knew, even in March of 2020, it looked an awful lot like it was gonna be a replay of avian flu, a lot of concern over nothing in early 2020, early March. But I was getting weird questions like, Well, are you going to shut down churches? Are you going to halt the sacraments? Where are you guys getting these questions? Why would journalists be asking this? At that point, there was no indication that things would get that bad.   Will Dove  32:02 But clearly, they knew that it was going to because there's no other explanation, because we know that the press, they all get their marching orders from higher ups. They're being told what to ask. Right? And so you've got all these different reporters asking all these same questions about something to that point in time. You've heard nothing about?   Bob DuBroy  32:19 No, no. We saw the videos of people dropping dead in the streets of China, which was obviously fake, and people in hazmat suits. It was obviously a joke. Okay, then people are coming by plane from China into Canada, fine. Some people are going to catch this flu. Big deal. And I think it's going to be a replay of avian flu. So that's what I'm telling them. Well, then three days later, no and Christians are asking me - evangelicals. Well, what are you going to do about about communion because this is transmissible. I said, Look, you have to have faith. And the body of Christ is so precious to us that we're not going to compromise that. Three days later. We are like, everything I say becomes a lie. Three days later. I asked the bishop what's going on? And he'll tell me Well, and I, this is what I relay. And then three days later, that's not the case anymore. So and I became an early warning system. Early in March, I heard that South Korea's was was shutting down everything. They were closing churches, which was unheard of. So I told the people at the diocesan center, the closing churches in Korea, and then more and more countries were doing this. And then and around the 18th 17th or 18th of March, the Archdiocese of Hamilton sent everybody home. Like they closed the building. Oh, this is madness.  So I told my people that they closed the building, everybody's working from home and some people got laid off. And then three days later, it happened to us. It accelerated, but looking back, what I relayed to to the media was always through the lens of a faithful Catholic. And had they asked about an abortion tainted vaccine. I probably in my naivety would have said, well, that's, that's not something we would recommend to the lay. But had I asked my bishop first and he would have asked the Canadian Conference Catholic Bishops and they would have asked Rome, or I might have gone through the pronuncio, essentially or ambassador, which and he would have gotten, they would have asked Rome, we would have had a different answer. And that's not the answer. I would have expected --   Will Dove  34:43 -- especially since as we pointed out earlier in this interview, that answer that you're referring to, which was yes, everybody should go and take the vax and we should shut down all of our churches that basically that's based upon, supposed health concerns, which are not the province or the authority of the Pope.   Bob DuBroy  35:01 Absolutely not. And I was getting a lot of like, even though I was working for an archbishop who was 76 years old, he was not alive during the Spanish flu. He wasn't, he wasn't. My grandparents were. But he wasn't. And he's telling me they shut down movie theaters and churches during the Spanish flu. Well, I'd like to, I'd like to find that out. I did web searches, like I can't, I can't see anywhere, where it explicitly says, from this date to this date, in these cities, we shut down the churches. It must be written down someplace if you can find a story. And I'd love to see that. But typically, even during a pandemic, where people were dying in the streets, and they weren't for COVID. We haven't shut down churches, we haven't withheld the Blessed Sacrament. We haven't without extreme motion to find the final rites. We just haven't done that. But the saints I know of have gone into leper colonies and ministered to lepers. They didn't stay on the outskirts and said, well, Peace be with you. Maybe throw a Bible over the fence? No, that's not what Catholics do. But that's what we did. In 2020 2021 2022. Stay home, stay safe, shutter, the buildings. The priests were locked in directories. And here was an opportunity to do something courageous. And they did. Because, yes, yes. But as we've discussed before, there were some who did some vicious God, there are --   Will Dove  36:42 -- somepriests who refused to comply, and continue to practice their Catholic faith and Catholic responsibilities to the members of their congregation as they should have.   Bob DuBroy  36:51 No, they did it quietly. But they did it. And especially among evangelicals, we've seen a lot of pastors got arrested for breaking the rules. But these are not these are man written rules. They weren't really laws, they're mandates, and they really should not apply to an essential service, the church that had the Catholic Church risen up our politicians would have said, Whoa, well, maybe we should rethink this. But that didn't happen. We had compliance.   Will Dove  37:21 And you make a very good point I, I was very, very upset when the gyms closed now, not because I've been, you know, versus worked out my whole life, and they cut off my access to the gym. But because I felt very strongly that there was one business out there that as a whole should have stood up and said, No, we're not going to do this, because we offer the one service that makes people the most resilient to disease exercise. Sure, but then after speaking with you, I realized no, there was a much bigger organization that should have stood up as a whole.   Bob DuBroy  37:50 The Catholic Church. Yes. Because if they had, how would that have impacted the narrative? I think what should have happened is we should have realized we were Saint Factories way before this, because what happened was, we weren't ready. And we have a lot of sheep, and not a whole lot of leaders. And people thought, okay, mascot Sure. Watch church on Zoom and at home on YouTube. Okay. Instead of the leaders and the committed people in the passionate people who have said, There's something wrong with this picture. We should have had 80% of Catholics saying no, we're not going to take this. Instead, we have 3% of Catholics saying no, we're not going to take this. No, that wasn't enough. We didn't have the numbers. We didn't have the momentum. Right. But yeah, that would have changed everything that would have changed policies that was a public health would have been redefined. And then we can start started looking behind all of these claims, all of these, these so called numbers and, and why the media were so messed up.   Will Dove  38:53 Because we would have had this huge section of the population, that we're still gathering regularly. And not by the way, folks, my wife is Catholic, I was Catholic for a long time. Catholics don't just go to church on Sundays, a lot of them will go to Mass throughout the week, they have other sorts of events where they gather. So we would have this huge section of the population that was gathering regularly in large numbers and close proximity. And we would have seen well, they're not dying at any higher rate than anyone else. That's it and that was a lie right there.   Bob DuBroy  39:21 If they have done that, and it's a sleeping giant. That's how you can define the Catholic Church or the Christian church in general. The number one is the Bible in the year with was Father Mike Schmitz number one in North America, on Spotify, and a whole lot of other platforms. And now he's doing the Catechism in a year. And it's it's drawing huge numbers. So when when we do finally get on fire for something, the numbers are persuasive. Yes. But we didn't have the leadership. We had a few very quiet race. We're saying there's This is wrong. Let's not do this. One of the difficulties is we've abdicated a whole lot of jurisdictions. We used to be in the teaching business we used to be in, in the healing business. And the state has taken over more and more encroached in these areas that were rightfully, really the church was active. And now we're down to chaplains going to tour into hospitals, and praying with the SEC. To do that, you have to get back to administer the sacrament of the sake, and which is a big part of what a priest duty is now, to do that, you have to be relaxed. Well, that's horrible. That's a horrible imposition. And that's the state imposing it on on ministers of the truth, trying   Will Dove  40:47 to end their unfortunate what they're doing is they are robbing people who are probably many of them laying in the hospital dying. It's either those last rites that last visit from their priest, something which is central to their faith, you're sending people off to die, and many of the wondering if they're going to end up going to hell because they didn't get a visit from their priest before they died. Well, if they have I mean, I realized I'm exaggerating a bit here. But still, it's it's that kind of says illogical warfare.   Bob DuBroy  41:12 There's a great comfort to having these prayers near the end of life, tremendous comfort, and that was being withheld. Horrible, horrible. I think I mentioned to you the situation in Quebec, that was unheard of. Nobody should be changing the liturgy. And the Quebec government changed the liturgy in the Catholic mass by prohibiting people saying amen. When they would receive the Eucharist. The priests was a body of Christ, and they're supposed to stay stuck, stay silent, and receive the Eucharist, not acknowledge that this is the body of Christ. And that is horrible, because it's treating this like a cookie, and it's not a cookie. But now 80% of people think it's just a cookie. And they don't say Amen. So there's no acknowledgement. What kind of professional faith of that. Is that what, what kind of altar call is that when they go up? And they don't say anything? They don't say it is true? Yes. And that's because the Quebec government prohibited them from saying it. And now children don't know that they're supposed to say, Amen. What's wrong with this picture? And the government, by the way, has been empowered. Oh, we can change the liturgy. Now. What else can we meddle in.   Will Dove  42:25 But of course, they shouldn't be because there should be separation of church and state there should be, if any, any proper system. And I think this is true of any church doesn't matter if the Catholic Church, it's a Protestant church or whatever. If a government comes along and says, we get to dictate how you practice your faith, they should be telling them what they can do with themselves.   Bob DuBroy  42:44 That's right. But the lesson learned is you declare an emergency, you can do whatever you want. So what if the Quebec government decides Okay, well, from now on in the interest of public health, X, Y, Zed, what else? Can they do this? And are we going to roll over and play dead? As you can tell, I'm unhappy with the situation. I am behaving this way. Now, you've heard of the great The Great Barrington declaration, yes, where scientists and doctors got together and, and said some really common sense things about how we should be dealing with COVID and how we shouldn't be dealing with COVID. Well, in in in March, there was a similar declaration out of Rome, by a Catholic theologians, Catholic doctors. It was a wonderful, wonderful declaration, and it anticipated a vaccine that would be abortion tainted, and it anticipated imposing medical procedures on people. And it said, No, let's not do that. This is not how we should be dealing with this. And we should not have lockdowns to destroy the economy. We No, no, no, no, no. The website got taken down. Because our friend Francis wasn't an agreement. He said almost the opposite of everything in that declaration. Fortunately, that was reproduced on other websites, so you can still read it. But the original the official one removed, cancel culture.   Will Dove  44:15 So Bob, I have I really wanted to do this interview with you. Because of your experiences with both the CBC and the Catholic Church, you have given me the opportunity to interview with one person two very fundamental rights, freedom of speech, which should be practiced by the media isn't a being, but should be and freedom of religion. And I have said many times those two rights are very closely intertwined. You can't attack one without attacking the other. And so I don't want to give you any more framework other than that, to give our viewers your final thoughts on these.   Bob DuBroy  44:51 Well, I know you want a general statement,   Will Dove  44:55 I want whatever statement you want to say, Bob.   Bob DuBroy  44:58 Okay, well, these these freedoms are good God given. All right, we are not granted by a constitution or a law. These are, these are God given this is all about human dignity. And a government can recognize and observe and honor and, and live with those freedoms, or a government can try to take them away. But the government's don't grant those freedoms. These are fundamental to being a human being a and b, if I can zoom in on one thing, and this was my experience, after I left the diocese, looking at people getting getting the COVID injection, my early objection to that was that they were tainted because of the abortion question.  But then as I studied the composition of the injections, and all of the mechanisms of harm, and whether they actually worked or not. And that became more evident as the weeks went by, I knew that it was a really bad decision for anyone to to accept these injections. But so many people had been primed. This is the only way out, this is the only way to regain our freedoms. This is the only way we can get back to normal. They were it was a faith, even deeper than mine, I think, because they were believing in something they couldn't see. I haven't I've had an experience of my God, but and they had no experience of whether this job was going to do perform as promised.  Even if it had been if it had been safe and effective. I now recognize the principle. It doesn't matter. If someone chooses not to, you must not coerce them. How hard is that? Even if something is 100% safe and effective? If they choose to not have that shot into their bloodstream? You have to respect that how hard is that something so fundamental, and yet it has turned friends against friends. A lot of people don't talk to me anymore. And yet, it's just common sense. Don't impose something like that on someone.   Will Dove  47:15 Bob, thank you so much for the post, folk if you've seen my previous interview with Bob, he did a lot of research to provide us with information on paramedics who were dying. And thank you for coming back today to speak to me about the press and about what's going on in the church. Because I think what you're doing here is you're painting this very important picture of these two segments of our society that should have been standing up for what was right. The Press should have been telling people the truth. And the church should have been standing up for people's rights to gather and practice their faith without interference from governments. And instead, we've had both of them go 180 and work for those agencies to take away people's knowledge of the truth. And it takes away their right to practice their faith.   Bob DuBroy  48:04 Let's hope we've learned some lessons. We don't get a repeat of this.   Will Dove  48:08